Subaru Discussion Forums

Go Back   ScoobyNet > Technical / Subaru Modifications > Drivetrain
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?


Drivetrain Gearbox, Diffs & Driveshafts etc

Welcome to ScoobyNet.com!
Subaru forum
Welcome to the ScoobyNet.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Reply
 
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 23 October 2007, 07:24 PM   #1
simbo
Scooby Regular
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: aberdeenshire
Posts: 751
Send a message via MSN to simbo
This is my Scooby.  To set up your own Scooby, go to your user cp, and click 'Edit Settings'.
Default sti 6 speed or ppg box

hi all i have been offered a 6 speed box from an 06 sti 2.5 which seems to work out the same price as a ppg 5 speed box am i still better sticking with ppg for my 2.35 classic road car or is the 6 speed a good option ?


cheers david
__________________
from standard wrx to nearly bankrupt
simbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23 October 2007, 11:27 PM   #2
Aztec Performance Ltd
www.superhids.co.uk
 
Aztec Performance Ltd's Avatar
 
Trader Score: (234)
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Over 500ft/lbs of torque @ just 1.1bar
Posts: 14,340
aztec.performance AztecPer
Default

6 Speeds can be had for around half the cost of PPG.
Aztec Performance Ltd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24 October 2007, 12:34 AM   #3
Slowboy Racing
Slowboy Racing

 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: 10.68 QT mile in 2007 2.33 Type R ** Current 2002 Spec C 2.33 Track prepped.
Posts: 1,659
Default

6 Speed is a good option if you’re not planning on quarter mile racing or trying to save every last kg. For a road car its good fun and as above can be had for a reasonable prices, i would however go for the UK with longer ratios.
Slowboy Racing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24 October 2007, 02:37 PM   #4
the_msp
Supporting Member
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fermanagh/Tyrone
Posts: 579
This is my Scooby.  To set up your own Scooby, go to your user cp, and click 'Edit Settings'.
Default

http://bbs.scoobynet.com/drivetrain-...g-6-speed.html
the_msp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24 October 2007, 04:58 PM   #5
Triple X
Scooby Regular
 
Trader Score: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: www.ladsoc.co.uk
Posts: 1,135
Default

If not mistaken a 2.5 STi will have "forester ratios" and will have longer gearing than an earlier UK 6 speed.

You need to get the gearbox code to confirm what its out of but mine is:

DW-TY856WG7KA

and has the following ratio's:

1: 3.636
2: 2.235
3: 1.521
4: 1.137
5: 0.891
6: 0.707

Reverse: 3.545

Final Drive: 3.900

Which gives these speeds (on my tyre sizes)

Last edited by Triple X; 24 October 2007 at 05:00 PM. Reason: blah
Triple X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24 October 2007, 06:00 PM   #6
Tidgy
Scooby Regular
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Notts
Posts: 16,688
This is my Scooby.  To set up your own Scooby, go to your user cp, and click 'Edit Settings'.
Default

just had to decide the same myself, ppg straight cut is what i went for, but mine is a weekend toy and i love the whine from it


i had exactly the same choice to make about 5 months ago.

replace with a standard/rebuilt box £600 ish, not good if your going for more power

6 speed £1800+ strong, but some people don't like the ratio change

5 speed helical or striaght cut ppg box £2700 strong as you can get

6 speed helical or straight cut ppg box £4700 strong as you can get

finaly option is prob nearer 8-10k and thats a full dog box,

PPG gear set and dog gear engagement system, its not cheap, strongest type of box you can get, but you have to double clutch

the PPG kits would use my existing 5th gear for the top gear to keep it nice and quiet for cruising.


in the end i went for the the ppg straight cut box, and have to confess i love it, the sound when you welly it is fantastic, i've got to the stage where i some times don't even notice it.

heres a little video of it taken from out side, mines the blue classic early on, but you can tell from the noise as i drive past then leave the road

Video of Scooby crescent - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting
Tidgy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24 October 2007, 07:36 PM   #7
simbo
Scooby Regular
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: aberdeenshire
Posts: 751
Send a message via MSN to simbo
This is my Scooby.  To set up your own Scooby, go to your user cp, and click 'Edit Settings'.
Default

thanks all yeah the 6 speedbox im thinking about is the same ratio as the sti forrester
__________________
from standard wrx to nearly bankrupt

Last edited by simbo; 24 October 2007 at 08:43 PM.
simbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24 October 2007, 08:04 PM   #8
Henrik
Scooby Regular
 
Trader Score: (5)
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: London
Posts: 2,809
Send a message via MSN to Henrik
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tidgy View Post
just had to decide the same myself, ppg straight cut is what i went for, but mine is a weekend toy and i love the whine from it

...

in the end i went for the the ppg straight cut box, and have to confess i love it, the sound when you welly it is fantastic, i've got to the stage where i some times don't even notice it.

heres a little video of it taken from out side, mines the blue classic early on, but you can tell from the noise as i drive past then leave the road

Video of Scooby crescent - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting
I *need* one of those gearboxes
Henrik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 October 2007, 02:05 PM   #9
Tidgy
Scooby Regular
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Notts
Posts: 16,688
This is my Scooby.  To set up your own Scooby, go to your user cp, and click 'Edit Settings'.
Default

lol, they are pretty cool,. take some getting used to though
Tidgy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 October 2007, 03:23 PM   #10
Monkey200
Scooby Regular
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Lancs/Yorks
Posts: 131
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tidgy View Post
lol, they are pretty cool,. take some getting used to though
Dog boxes do, but once you have it sorted the super-fast cluthless shift are so so rewarding
We have one in the slyline, PPG 5 speed straight cut Dog, and about to put one in my TimeAttack car, PPG 4 speed helical cut dog.

Learn more here
PPG - The Performance Gearbox
or
Pfitzner Performance Gearbox
Monkey200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 October 2007, 06:07 PM   #11
Tidgy
Scooby Regular
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Notts
Posts: 16,688
This is my Scooby.  To set up your own Scooby, go to your user cp, and click 'Edit Settings'.
Default

pmsl, and care to mention the cost? lol was told roughly 8-19k lol

bear in mind most gearbox's like mine with ppg straight cut kits arn't Dog box's, the dog box refers to the dog engagement system, adn you have to double clutch to shift a true dog box
Tidgy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 October 2007, 06:14 PM   #12
Monkey200
Scooby Regular
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Lancs/Yorks
Posts: 131
Default

Double de-clutch? I dont even use the clutch with the Dog box, thats the whole point

Prices, Retail including VAT

Gearset Price
Subaru WRX 6sp Dog Group N................................£5,946.17
Subaru WRX 6sp Dog Group N (5gear set).................£5,416.72
Subaru WRX 6sp, 4 gear DRAG (dog box)..................£3,722.47
Subaru WRX 5sp Dog Group N.................................£4,807.85
Subaru WRX 5sp 4 Gear str-cut (dog box).................£2,954.77
Subaru WRX 5sp 4 Gear helical (dog box)..................£3,060.66
Subaru WRX 1/2 str-cut (dog box)...........................£1,710.56
Subaru WRX 1/2 helical (dog box)............................£1,710.56
Subaru WRX 3/4 str-cut (dog box)...........................£1,366.41
Subaru WRX 3/4 helical (dog box)............................£1,472.30
Subaru WRX 5sp 4 gear str-cut (syncro)....................£2,372.37
Subaru WRX 5sp 4 gear helical (syncro).....................£2,372.37
Subaru WRX 1st & 2nd str-cut (syncro).....................£1,392.89
Subaru WRX 1st & 2nd helical (syncro).......................£1,392.89
Subaru WRX 3rd & 4th str-cut (syncro)......................£1,101.69
Subaru WRX 3rd & 4th helical (syncro) .......................£1,101.69
Subaru WRX 1/2 Billet Selector fork (5sp)....................£307.51
Subaru WRX 3/4 Billet Selector fork (5sp)....................£307.51
Subaru WRX 5/R Billet Selector fork (5sp)....................£386.93
Subaru WRX Interlocker (5sp)....................................£439.87
Subaru WRX LSD (front) (5sp)...................................£863.43
Subaru WRX LSD (centre) (5sp) (99 on)......................£1,075.21
Subaru WRX 1/2 Billet Selector fork (6sp)....................£333.98
Subaru WRX 3/4 Billet Selector fork (6sp)....................£333.98
Subaru WRX 5 spd RWD Conversion Spools (99 on)........£402.81
Subaru WRX 6 spd RWD Conversion Spools...................£402.81
Subaru WRX Bronze Speedo Gear................................£185.73
Subaru WRX 3rd/4th & 5th/Rev Billet Syncro Hubs..........£254.56
Monkey200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 October 2007, 06:43 PM   #13
Tidgy
Scooby Regular
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Notts
Posts: 16,688
This is my Scooby.  To set up your own Scooby, go to your user cp, and click 'Edit Settings'.
Default

pmsl, yeah and thats just the kit, let alone building and fitting etc, fun option i'd admit, if you have the cash lol
Tidgy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 October 2007, 07:07 PM   #14
911
Scooby Regular
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,341
Default

Slightly off the essence of the thread, but i drove a helical synchro ppg on a race track and it was really nice, almost stock feel.

I have driven also a dog semi-helical and you do have to slam the gear lever very fast. Quite something, but surely, never for any appreciable road journey, esp in traffic.
I think you really need billet forks for the dog also, and clutch change downshifting to get reasonable miles between rebiulds.

Several people are now fitting straight synch to 1.2.3rd, helical to 4th and stock 5th.

This will be the way for me in my hillclimb StiV3 (if i don't sell it soon )
911 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29 October 2007, 06:25 PM   #15
Monkey200
Scooby Regular
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Lancs/Yorks
Posts: 131
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tidgy View Post
pmsl, yeah and thats just the kit, let alone building and fitting etc, fun option i'd admit, if you have the cash lol
Not sure on Subaru gearbox builds, but for a nissan we have had a customer who bought bearings for under £100, build was £150, fitting was £80, that still doesnt take you to anywhere near the figures your talking about.

Helical syncro kit should feel just like stock, but with more power handling capability.
Monkey200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29 October 2007, 07:33 PM   #16
P1SWRT
Scooby Regular
 
P1SWRT's Avatar
 
Trader Score: (2)
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: WRX Sti Version 5 Type RA Limited 230/1000
Posts: 186
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tidgy View Post
pmsl, and care to mention the cost? lol was told roughly 8-19k lol

Modena full Dog kit (5sp) circa £3,500.00 - £4,000.00 just need selector forks + diffs and donor box

bear in mind most gearbox's like mine with ppg straight cut kits arn't Dog box's, the dog box refers to the dog engagement system, adn you have to double clutch to shift a true dog box
Why do you need to double de-clutch a dog box? - the idea of a dog box is NOT to use the clutch except when starting & stopping.

Some misguided info re dog boxes.....

PS Dave / Rob at API has some recent knowledge of fitting and repairing 'true' dog boxes
P1SWRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 October 2007, 02:52 PM   #17
Tidgy
Scooby Regular
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Notts
Posts: 16,688
This is my Scooby.  To set up your own Scooby, go to your user cp, and click 'Edit Settings'.
Default

well can only go on the rough quotes i got, as soon as i found out rough figure of at least 4K plus i didn't look any further, how much would the selectecor forkes be? and building a box for that cheap? well dunno where you went cos i got th3e same figure from about 5 different companies as far as fitting and building the box.

and would you want to be driving all the time having to ram it into gear even if going slowly?
Tidgy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01 November 2007, 06:53 PM   #18
exvaux
Scooby Regular
 
Trader Score: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: throwing pieces oot a 20 storey flat
Posts: 1,845
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 911 View Post
Slightly off the essence of the thread, but i drove a helical synchro ppg on a race track and it was really nice, almost stock feel.

I have driven also a dog semi-helical and you do have to slam the gear lever very fast. Quite something, but surely, never for any appreciable road journey, esp in traffic.
I think you really need billet forks for the dog also, and clutch change downshifting to get reasonable miles between rebiulds.

Several people are now fitting straight synch to 1.2.3rd, helical to 4th and stock 5th.

This will be the way for me in my hillclimb StiV3 (if i don't sell it soon )
whats the benefit of 1,2,3 straight ,4th helical and uk 5th?
exvaux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01 November 2007, 07:35 PM   #19
911
Scooby Regular
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,341
Default

Strongest/strongest/strongest/nearly the strongest but quiet on the road/ stock noise on the motorway!

I recently drove a 5 speeder ppg with helical synchro 1/2/3/4 Stock 5th and it was like a stock 5 speeder, really nice.

Straight cuts sure do whine but are robust and sound great to many!
911 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02 November 2007, 02:45 PM   #20
simbo
Scooby Regular
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: aberdeenshire
Posts: 751
Send a message via MSN to simbo
This is my Scooby.  To set up your own Scooby, go to your user cp, and click 'Edit Settings'.
Default

i thought it was 1/2 staight and 3/4 helical cause 1/2 and 3/4 come in pairs
__________________
from standard wrx to nearly bankrupt
simbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02 November 2007, 07:26 PM   #21
exvaux
Scooby Regular
 
Trader Score: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: throwing pieces oot a 20 storey flat
Posts: 1,845
Default

is tidgys a straight cut then?for that noise alone its worth the money!
exvaux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02 November 2007, 10:38 PM   #22
P1 NUT
Scooby Regular
 
Trader Score: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: S.W. Scotland
Posts: 723
Default

I will be getting the helical kit done in my P1 by the end of the month at Zen Performance.
P1 NUT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03 November 2007, 12:59 AM   #23
Tidgy
Scooby Regular
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Notts
Posts: 16,688
This is my Scooby.  To set up your own Scooby, go to your user cp, and click 'Edit Settings'.
Default

lol, yeah mines straight cut 1-4 and then the normal uk 5th gear to keep it nice and quiet and resonable revs for motorway, works ratehr well i must admit

[.s. the whine in the video is from the straight cut box
Tidgy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03 November 2007, 11:19 AM   #24
MaDaSS
Orange Club
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 2,085
Send a message via MSN to MaDaSS
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 911 View Post
Strongest/strongest/strongest/nearly the strongest but quiet on the road/ stock noise on the motorway!

I recently drove a 5 speeder ppg with helical synchro 1/2/3/4 Stock 5th and it was like a stock 5 speeder, really nice.

Straight cuts sure do whine but are robust and sound great to many!
What was the noise on the ppg you mention above 911? I know the straight cuts whine but what about the helical synchro ones? What sort of torque would this box take?
__________________
Audi S3 Sportback Black Edition in Ibis White
Now I can see what the fuss is about with German cars!
The Subaru was 8 years enjoyment, I hope to have the same in this
MaDaSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03 November 2007, 04:08 PM   #25
bren@apex
Former Sponsor
 
Trader Score: (20)
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,694
Default

You dont need to be forceful with the dog box, it doesnt require strength to shift, just a fast an positive action for full bore clutchless shifts. When youre driving normally you can shift slowly without any problems.

Just dont put it into neutral whilst driving as youll not get it back into gear without a godaweful CRUNCH and lots of wincing as a result. I learnt the hard way!
bren@apex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03 November 2007, 11:54 PM   #26
911
Scooby Regular
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,341
Default

Straight cuts whine quite a lot, dog or sychro shift. The ppg helical I drove sounded like a 40K mile stock 5 speeder, ie normal.

Shifting a dog box simply means shifting the lever fast, no great effort, just fast. Odd at first not using the clutch but the speed of shift is very quick.
911 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03 November 2007, 11:54 PM
 
 
 
Reply

Tags
box, bronze, dog, gear, gears, ppg, ratio, set, speed, speedo, sti, subaru, versus, whine, wrx


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:11 AM.


Important - Opinions expressed are not necessarily the opinions of ScoobyNet or any individuals directly or indirectly involved in this website or the companies and individuals associated with it. No responsibility is taken or assumed for any comments or statements made on this or any associated or relating bulletin board. Your personal information will be kept private except to comply with applicable laws or valid legal reasons.
Email Backups