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Old 09 January 2005, 22:35   #1
Charlie_Boy
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Question Painting new plaster

OK, we have had our house reskimmed, and it has been a few weeks since it was finished, the plaster is now a light pink colour, hopefully ready to paint. What now needs to be done in order to start the painting process. I would have thought getting any small nicks removed/smoothed down and cleaning the surfaces from dust and then painting using a thinned down emulsion paint.
We will be having painted walls afterwards.

What paint would be best recc'd, the normal matt emulsion or paint for new plaster? and what brands?.
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Old 09 January 2005, 22:53   #2
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I allways say leytex paint for new plaster, from leyland paint supplyers if you have one near you,
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Old 09 January 2005, 22:54   #3
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The walls will need to be "denibbed" with a broad spatula, then mist coated with either Dulux supermatt or Crown covermatt, they are about the best available from any good decorating merchants, don`t use this neat though thin it down approx 70% paint 30% water and give it a good mix.
Look for any filling that needs to be done then rub the filler and the rest of the walls down, touch up with the mix of paint.
Two coats of your chosen colour should be enough then preferably vinyl matt/silk.
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Old 10 January 2005, 10:14   #4
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DieselDoo, what do you mean by "denibbed". Is the Dulux Rich Matt emulsion paint anygood to use thinned down?
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Old 10 January 2005, 10:47   #5
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If you look close at the walls/ceilings you will see small nibs of plaster stuck on them, especially in the corners and along the ceiling line. A new plastered wall should in theory be ready for painting, but 99% of the time I paint new plaster I always come across these "snobs" that need cleaning of first.
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Old 10 January 2005, 10:49   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie_Boy
DieselDoo, what do you mean by "denibbed". Is the Dulux Rich Matt emulsion paint anygood to use thinned down?
denibbing is just the removal of the gritty feeling you will get if you rub your hand over the wall. I tend to use a bit of old sandpaper, rather than a spatula but the result is the same, the wall needs to feel smooth. I've always used a thinned down emulsion (about 7:1) for the mist coat, and never had any problems I tend to use Leyland too, but that's mainly because they're just up the road from me
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Old 10 January 2005, 20:06   #7
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If the walls have been plastered properly, then sandpaper certainly should not be needed.
The cheapest and by far the best method is to paint on watered down Unibond (pva).

pva is a sealant and will stop any dusting.
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Old 10 January 2005, 21:31   #8
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did all our with PVA mixed with water works a treat, used about 30% / 70% mix, drys very quick and took a coat of paint spot on with no primer
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Old 11 January 2005, 10:50   #9
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The plasterer did unibond the walls first, do they still require PVA? I was going to paint on thinned emulsion.
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Old 11 January 2005, 18:40   #10
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I'm glad I spotted this post as I'm having a wall re-skimmed this week. I will ask the plasterer what he recommends. Mates have recommended two options
1. First coat with 50/50 water/emulsion or
2. Neat PVA

Mike
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Old 11 January 2005, 20:12   #11
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For the paint to adhere to the wall the 1st coat shoud be paint especially formulated for new plaster and thinned down to absorb in and not sit on the surface.
Vinyl emulsion will not absorb into new plaster and will form a skin, it is ok to put vinyl on top of the one I`ve mentioned above, paint manufactures spend millions of pounds developing their products to last if done properly and in the correct sequance. no where do any of them say use PVA.
PVA is ok to use on new plaster if you are hanging wallpaper, but then they will still have to be filled and glue sized before hanging.
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Old 11 January 2005, 20:18   #12
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This is the stuff, and I believe it is PVA though I may be wrong - Blue Hawk Plaster Primer. For priming and sealing plaster and plasterboard prior to decorating.

Mike
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Old 11 January 2005, 21:03   #13
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LoL ?????
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Old 11 January 2005, 21:17   #14
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dont use pva it will peel off in sheets, just use a matt emulsion slightly thinned, if its leyland dont thin it to much as it is thin compared to the likes of dulux or crown. p.s take note i am a painter and decorator....
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Old 12 January 2005, 17:15   #15
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From a builder,
have used pva every time with no problems.
You WILL get problems with it peeling off if it is used neat.
It needs to be watered down around 10-1 ish.
It will then be soaked into the plaster and form a seal.
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Old 12 January 2005, 20:56   #16
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Carry on building then, and dont bother with the decorating
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Old 13 January 2005, 19:38   #17
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oooooh!
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Old 14 January 2005, 17:36   #18
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Do a search... i told loads of ppl how this should be done!!!!

but here we go.......


NEW plaster!!!

use a very thin coat of MATT emulsion.... (DULUX TRADE)... apply with BRUSH rather than a roller... as a roller can make the first coat lay on the surface... with a brush you are pushing the paint in (if you see what i mean)
thin the paint down so it will penertrate the new plaster wall. test the paint out to see you have it thin enough on an unseen arae of the wall first.
NO NEED to use alkali (sp) resisting primer on the wall as Emusion is alkali resisting anyway.

when the 1st thin coat has dried... check the walls out for any parts that might need a bit of filler (new walls are a pain if you see trowl marks etc etc)... when the filler has dried... sand down all the walls to make them smooth again.
THEN
give TWO more coats of thinned down coats emulsion.
you can use thicker paint each time you add another coat... but make sure its not too thick that you get it dying with brush makes or an 'orange peel' effect off a roller
if you use the paint too think you will find it hard to apply and it will dry off on the 'wet' edge too quick!!

Don't waste money buying CHEAP DIY paint.. ie retail paints.. even Dulux retail paints are not the same as 'TRADE' Dulux paints.
TRADE paint can be thinned to the consistancy you require!!

better to give three thinner coats of paint than trying to make it cover in one!!!

Don't waste time coating new plaster with thinned PVA.
As you are wanting a 'paint' finish.. the extra coats of emulsion will give a better coverage and build up on the plaster.

http://www.salsa-king.fotopic.net/c28865.html


Phil
Decorator to the stars
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Old 14 January 2005, 17:49   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselDoo
Vinyl emulsion will not absorb into new plaster and will form a skin.

i think you were ment to say vinyl SILK.

as thinned vinyl matt is ideal




PVA is not a product a decoartor uses very often.......... unless in glue/adhesive form lol

doing it everyday a profesional does....
New plaster for painting...... use thinned emulsion (water base paint)
New plaster for papering.... use thinned down 'solvite' wall paper paste.. or glue size (don't really think many use that now days)

all your doing to the new surface is trying to loose that 'suction' (perosity)


wanting to paint new plaster with OIL base paints is another story all together lol

Phil
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Old 15 January 2005, 10:38   #20
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Phil I am a decorater my self and I know that vinyl matt will form a skin and SHOULD NOT be used for the 1st coat on new plaster.

In theory what should be done is use the supermatt or superflat thinned down to absorb in then do all your filling and making good to the walls and touching up the filler and any bare plaster with thinned down supermatt or superflat. Leaving the carrect amount of time for the drying process.

Only when you are satisfied the walls are filled and preped 100% can you then use vinyl emulsion, be it matt, silk or soft sheen they are all more durable than the supermatt/flat and can be wiped down if get dirty marks on.

New houses that are built are all left in this super matt/flat, the idea behind this is that after the 12 months retension period, if any cracking or plaster popping from the nails, it can easily be repaired and a touch up done.
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Old 15 January 2005, 23:01   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselDoo
Phil I am a decorater my self and I know that vinyl matt will form a skin and SHOULD NOT be used for the 1st coat on new plaster.
Nothing wrong with Vinyl Matt paint... so..I beg to differ and working in the family business (est 1965) for 15yrs since leaving skool in 1990....
coming out with...
Year 1 + 2 City&Guilds,
C&G Craft Cirtificate,
also Advance City and Guild Qualification
BDA cup winner in 1993
also taught P&D at Basford Hall college in Nottm for three years, specialising in the Decoartive Paint finish class.. (Marbleing/Graining and Broken Colour work etc etc)

I know what i'm on about


to help also.. text taken from www.DULUXTRADE.co.uk web site..
(as we only use Dulux Trade)....you get what you pay for
http://www.duluxtrade.co.uk/webapp/w...ulux_df&root=N

Spec for DULUX Trade Vinyl Matt paint...
Click the image to open in full size.
Vinyl Matt
Water-based

A matt emulsion paint for use on interior walls and ceilings.

Ideal for use on woodchip, blown vinyl wallcoverings etc, as well as dry plaster and a range of building boards.

Excellent finish.
Best by Test Product.
Colour range
More than 12000 colours

Pack sizes
1L, 2.5L, 5L, 10L

Touch dry
After 2-4 hours.

Coverage
Up to 17m per litre on most surfaces.

Thinning
Brush or roller application: for sealing new or bare surfaces, 1 part clean water to 5 parts paint.

|For normal use: thinning should not normally exceed 1 part clean water to 10 parts paint.

Conventional Spray: add up to 1 part clean water to 5 parts paint.


Airless spray: add up to 1 part clean water to 5 parts paint.




we also use a lot of the Dulux Trade FLAT Matt paint.. very nice... but not cheap!

Phil

Last edited by salsa-king; 15 January 2005 at 23:04.
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Old 16 January 2005, 00:01   #22
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Painting mine tomorrow hopefully, had the walls plastered on Thursday. I asked the plasterer for his opinion, his recommendation was to paint straight on with emulsion. When I asked about PVA or 50/50 slurry he laughed and said "maybe 20 years ago"


Go figure
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Old 16 January 2005, 10:02   #23
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don't use it straight out the tin tho!!! lol
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Old 17 January 2005, 18:36   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salsa-king
Nothing wrong with Vinyl Matt paint... so..I beg to differ and working in the family business (est 1965) for 15yrs since leaving skool in 1990....
coming out with...
Year 1 + 2 City&Guilds,
C&G Craft Cirtificate,
also Advance City and Guild Qualification
BDA cup winner in 1993
also taught P&D at Basford Hall college in Nottm for three years, specialising in the Decoartive Paint finish class.. (Marbleing/Graining and Broken Colour work etc etc)

I know what i'm on about

Ooops but i`ve got 10 years more experiance than you, and i`ve got all the City and Guilds and Advanced craft certificates.

Wasn`t it NVQ`s in 1990 Phil, and not City&Guilds.

So I`m speaking from experiance.
I work for a decorating company that turns over 3million a year my boss has a wage bill each week of over 35,000.

A big job for us is when you have to have 20 decoraters on the project for over 12 months. An average job is to have between 4-6 decoraters and a couple of apprentices doing a project thats lasts about 4 months.

We do have a project that`s been on the go for 3 years, and due to last another three.

Again speaking from experiance, as we paint a LOT of plaster in a year is to use a supermatt for the 1st coat. The plastering I have come across and this is on multi million pound projects is sometimes diabolical. Who ends up puting this right, the decorater as its his work that is on show and seen by the public, and the plaster`ers have long gone from site now

If a wall or ceiling needs hamesing out, I find supermatt the best paint to work with because as you rub down no edge will form as it will if using Vinyl matt. With the supermatt you can rub down the high spots of plaster and fill the low points. Again I say only use vinyl matt once you know there is no more work needed to be done.

Oh BTW I`ve read that dulux site about painting plaster here and it never mentions Viyl:-

Granted it does say thin down the 1st specified coat but in my 25 years in the trade i`ve learned that supermatt, which is formulated for new plaster is better to use for the first "mist" coat and if your specified finish is vinyl, put this on top of that.

Phill just found a little snag with your work, you seem to have got some paint on the lightswitch
http://www.salsa-king.fotopic.net/p3713082.html

Last edited by DieselDoo; 17 January 2005 at 18:43.
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Old 17 January 2005, 23:57   #25
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This discussion has come and gone several times....agree with S.K. here, watered down ( mist coat ) of Dulux matt emulsion before you flat the nibs out, as this makes them easier to see, mist again, followed by as many coats as necessary of your finish of choice. Dulux, simply 'cos it's the best paint. This doesn't form a ' skin ', and will rub down without peeling, as long as the paint/water mix is 50/50 or less. Never understood or subscribed to the theories about PVA, it's just more work for no reason. See everyone's shouting about their credentials.....so I won't, suffice to say I'm working as a decorator for a respected company, and have done for as long as I care to remember. Like everyone else on here, I think I'm the only person who does the job right!
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Old 18 January 2005, 17:58   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselDoo
Ooops but i`ve got 10 years more experiance than you, and i`ve got all the City and Guilds and Advanced craft certificates.


Wasn`t it NVQ`s in 1990 Phil, and not City&Guilds.
I was the last year going through C&G

So I`m speaking from experiance.
I work for a decorating company that turns over 3million a year my boss has a wage bill each week of over 35,000.
i was going to say you sounded like a contractor doing 'new' work... as SuperMatt is designed for 'damp' plaster and covers in two coats.

A big job for us is when you have to have 20 decoraters on the project for over 12 months. An average job is to have between 4-6 decoraters and a couple of apprentices doing a project thats lasts about 4 months.
We do have a project that`s been on the go for 3 years, and due to last another three.
we don't do any contract worl, its all top end private stuff... we too have been on and off ONe prive house since june 1999.... still cant see the end of the tunnel always held up by builders and joiners !Doh!

Phil just found a little snag with your work, you seem to have got some paint on the light switch
http://www.salsa-king.fotopic.net/p3713082.html
LOL.... but if you look at the FINISH FLAT pix.... all is cleaned up then lol
http://www.salsa-king.fotopic.net/c202384.html
still say nothing wrong with Vinyl Matt thinned down for first coat on plaster


Phil
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Old 18 January 2005, 18:17   #27
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still say pva.
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Old 18 January 2005, 19:22   #28
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PVA......why........'cos you like doing more work than necessary? Thin down a coat of matt emulsion mate, you may be pleasantly surprised!
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Old 18 January 2005, 22:12   #29
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Then again it comes down to cost, if you are happy spending double the cost on your 1st coat carry on. Superflat is half the cost of vinyl matt, my boss is a great business man and he always seem to be smiling. Think this gentlemen will end the arguement.

Oh as for contract work, my boss started off on his own in 1977 with 6 decy`s, he now employs on average around 100, We bail loads of small companys out who take on jobs that they either **** up or who can`t manage to fulfill their side of the deal, not just local but all over the country. A lot of our work is in the center of London, some big private houses too. We are not based there, he is quite happy to put us up in a very comfortable hotel for the duration of the job.

Last edited by DieselDoo; 18 January 2005 at 22:57.
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Old 19 January 2005, 16:38   #30
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What's your point?
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Old 19 January 2005, 16:38
 
 
 
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