fat-thomas

iTrader: (4)

why do all these threads turn into trollathons?

oh yeh because nobody really cares about apple fan bois and their products.

jonc

I'm here to give balance to these threads, I think I'm still allowed to do that aren't I? Like you said, your threads are only popular because of our opposing views otherwise your threads will never get off the first page. So without further to do, here's why Apple Pay might not be as "game changing" in Europe.

http://www.macworld.com/article/2687...apple-pay.html

But if it pleases you, I won't post anymore on your threads.

neil-h

Except for a select few that seem to jump all over Jacks threads like a rash. If it wasn't for Jon C/Xline/dpb this thread would have died off ages ago.

dpb

Give over, hes obviously pushing apple as hard as he possibly can ( a large percentage of his day )

Somebody provides a scenario he doesnt like, and suddenly everyone's a troll


( and he starts swearing. ..... )

JackClark

Next time someone asks what PC to buy, suggest an iMac. Got me banned.

JackClark

Exactly.

Plus, these trolls seem to forget that at least 50% of Scoobynet own an Apple product, that's way higher than the percentage that own a Subaru.

JackClark

What do you think forums are for? Do you come to Computer Related hoping to not discuss computer related stuff? Apple released new products, we'd like to discuss them without ****** like you spamming the threads.

dpb

Where do you get your information from, knobface

JackClark

iOS 8.1 now available.

As expected the download is a tad slow right now.

neil-h

So with any luck they've ironed out 99% of the bugs now?

JackClark

That's a bit optimistic, quite a few more than are added and I'm happy.

Spell check seems a bit better and Spotlight works full speed past 3 characters.

JackClark

Just read that vending machines are working with Apple pay in the US. I didn't think adoption was so great in the US even vending machines are in on it.

dpb

Colleges everywhere no doubt. Suck em in with sugar. .!


Just like that other evil, Coka cola

JackClark

Confirmed working in Australia, will be interesting to hear if US cards are working at current UK terminals, no doubt they will.

Beef

Ok, all joking aside, what's the actual difference between Google Wallet (which has an iOS app) and Apple Pay?

As far as I can tell, GW lets you use pretty much any major card as your card, and is accepted anywhere that Mastercard Debit is (so basically everywhere), as it uses a 'virtual' Mastercard to perform the point-of-sale transaction, which in turn debits against your own credit card. From what I can tell, AP is fundamentally the same, but with Visa being the virtual card instead, meaning AP will work anywhere Visa (Debit?) is accepted without merchants having to lift a finger.

So as I see it, in real terms the vendors don't have to explicitly accept AP any more than they have to explicitly accept GW; provided they accept MC/Visa the existing infrastructure will work.

Online payments seem little different, in that online checkouts can support multiple payment systems already (Paypal, credit card, GW), and AP will become another option for merchants.

What I suspect will happen is that merchants will be offered attractive transaction rates for accepting direct payments from AP (and GW), encouraging merchants to support their direct payment systems to cut out Visa/MC.

In real terms over the next couple of decades, Apple/Google will likely simply become new entries on the implied list when people say 'all major credit cards accepted', and as contactless payments become increasingly popular merchants will simply accept all 5 through their systems.

Online will be a little different as Google Wallet is already in place and working in a number of countries for online payments, but uptake has been 'meh' compared to the major credit cards (or even Paypal) - the Apple effect may well allow them to leapfrog Google. Again though the sensible merchants will simply accept all of them, as ultimately a merchant doesn't care how you pay them, provided you do, and it's in their interests to make it as easy as possible for as many people as possible.

dpb

Don't upset him Beef .

Apple pay will be taking over the world, and pretty soon everyone will have an iphone 6 in their hands . There's no other scenario

dpb

They would effectively become bank of apple, which would really stink

Beef

I believe getting into the payment space is exactly what they are both wanting to do.

Google Wallet is already allowing money transfers between users, and while at the moment it presents to the outside world as a virtual Mastercard, merchants are still having to pay the transaction fee relevant to whatever card was used for the actual payment.

It is this space in which Google/Apple could offer a lower transaction rate if a payment system is adopted that bypasses Mastercard/Visa entirely. Paypal don't own either of the major mobile ecosystems, but I believe Android allows third-party access to NFC; it remains to be seen if Apple unlock NFC payments on the iPhone to allow the same, and I wouldn't be surprised either way to be honest.

Beef

It's entirely possible I'm completely wrong, and that both Google and Apple will continue with the virtualised credit card approach; ultimately users won't care provided "It just works".

The advantage of them not getting into payments is that it will be easier for users to flip ecosystems; you just detach your 'real' credit cards from one system and attach them to the other. There are pros and cons to this...

JackClark

The 'secure element' it's hardware that you'll have fun getting into all Android phones. And Touch ID of course.

Beef

Just done a bit of reading - the secure element was in the Galaxy Nexus, 2012 Nexus 7 and Nexus 4, but not in the Nexus 5 or 2013 Nexus 7 - instead, the security is all being handled in software using host card emulation (HCE), and anything running KitKat or higher could support tap-to-pay without needing a hardware secure element.

Seems that debate is ongoing about how secure this is vs hardware secure elements (HSE), and you can find articles arguing both viewpoints; I lack the understanding to tell who is right and who is wrong, especially amongst the inevitable axe-grinding on both sides of the fence.

Consensus does seem to be that a HSE is considered secure, but has considerable complications if you want to support multiple payment apps. It does also suggest that third-party app support of NFC payments on iOS would either require using HCE for those apps (assuming iOS allows that?), or for Apple to allow delegated access to the HSE, an apparently far from insignificant undertaking. I imagine the reality is that third-party payment apps simply won't happen on iOS, but again my understanding of it all is limited at best.

I personally find it interesting is that Google tried HSE and have now moved away from it. Putting the argument down for a minute they're not a stupid company, so there must be reasons why they felt it didn't work for them. Perhaps it does all come down to third-party app support, which if Apple aren't interested in allowing means they have no reason not to use a HSE.

The question then is whether the presence (or not) of a HSE will actually have any real-world impact on how people make use of NFC payments - I suspect not. Ultimately it'll be used as a point-scoring exercise back-and-forth, but then we're back into the argument.

JackClark

Nice write up, cheers Beef.

I think it's a combination of HSE, Touch ID, iOS and a lack of fragmentation - hardware and software - plus the capability to pull it off and a starting user base of at least 25,000,000 devices.

I have no doubt Android will be doing the same thing in the not so distant future but right now they don't have the combo needed to pull it off.

Beef

No worries, and thanks. Please bear in mind my understanding of all this is very superficial after 20 minutes of Google-fu, so don't take it as gospel; if you find I'm talking cobblers about any of it, let me know.

Being honest, my biggest hope from Apple Pay is that it will make Google extract their thumbs from their backsides and make Google Wallet available for NFC purchases here in the UK. I imagine that change in direction of how Android is handling NFC payments is a major part of the reason for the delay, but dammit I've been waiting for this ever since I got my Galaxy Nexus and I'm fed up waiting!

JackClark

Anyone here thinking they know all the details are kidding themselves. I just know it's more secure than my current NFC card and that could be worse. I'm still unclear on Apple's cut, all I know is there is a charge, I think it's low and I also think fraud will be reduced.

dpb

Well if you'd even attempted Beefs explanation, it would have avoided some controversy

But that probably wasn't the plan

JackClark

Did anyone order a *****? Got a ***** here no label, can't understand it.

JackClark

Side order of **** for Mr *****.

dpb

Jack doesn't understand the tech, but he's happy to spout all day about the benefits , since it's his beloved apple

He's also full of wind ( BS ) about his income

dpb

Is that really you in your avatar Jack?

My god you're fugly *****

Littleted

troll mode.

Its simple really, Anrdoid is **** and the devices are commonly owned by council wallas, Tattas, and jobless pikeys.

Apple are owned by workers who have Money.... hehe

Google backed out because none of its user base had Brass. Apples 70 Million devices are a better bet

anyway better go my works android is ringing