Guys, I have several little downlights in my hall.

They are GU10 mains voltage and I was considering changing to low voltage fittings.

Now, I have spoken to a spark friend of mine who said I would be better off sticking with the mains, but he didn't really explain why, short of saying the mains were 'just better':wonder:

So, anyone on here in the know who can confirm this?

In my experience my GU10's last nowhere near as long as my low voltage downlights, which I have in another room. In fact I would go so far as to say that I have replaced around 50 GU10's (both cheap tat and decent bulbs too), whilst I have not needed to replace 1 of the low voltage (MR16's IIRC).

Hence why I was thinking low voltage, that and the power saving too.

depends on the quality of transformers etc, if you get cheap transformers they can go quicker than bulbs.. are you using LED low voltage ones?

Electrician is probably working on the basis that he doesnt need to go back to mains installs for transformer swaps :)

David

Thanks for the reply. Would just be using standard low voltage bulbs, like I do elsewhere in the house (the ones I have not needed to replace).

IIRC the transformers used for the existing low voltage fittings I have were the more expensive ones, because I was warned about cheap rubbish. Looks like it was a good idea too.

I don't think he's worried about replacing anything, as i'd be doing the work myself anyway :p

So, basically in a nutshell.....

Good quality low voltage kit vs Good quality mains voltage bulbs?

I started putting in LV and had lots of trouble with dodgy transformers, switched to GU10's in other rooms and like you am forever replacing bulbs.

I've now sorted out my original transformer issues and prefer the LV's, although one advantage of GU10 fittings is that you can fit them with LED (once they are affordable/useable).

Yeah, noticed that you can fit LED's to the GU10's, although you can also fit them to the LV's too.

I was looking at LED GU10 bulbs online this morning. Almost £9 each, although if they survive the stated 30,000 hours, then well worth it IMHO.

Given that I have 9 bulbs to replace, could be an expensive trial though.

Oh what to do...

I've got examples of all three here, and I really rate the LED ones......

My main complaint about LV ones is that the bulbs are a PUSH-FIT into the bulb-holders/connectors, and the heat from the lamp makes the connections lose their springiness, resulting in arcing and premature bulb failure. (A bit like H2 bulbs then:( )

Most of my mains ones use Wickes bulbs and last yonks.
Alcazar

Thanks for that alcazar. I take it you are referring to the GU10 LED's?

If so, gonna go for them today. Cheers :)

I've got examples of all three here, and I really rate the LED ones......

My main complaint about LV ones is that the bulbs are a PUSH-FIT into the bulb-holders/connectors, and the heat from the lamp makes the connections lose their springiness, resulting in arcing and premature bulb failure. (A bit like H2 bulbs then:( )

Most of my mains ones use Wickes bulbs and last yonks.
Alcazar

What GU10 LED's do you rate ? all the ones I've tried have been rubbish. I've read good things about the Brilux V3 but they are £20 a go.

Mine came from Screwfix: there are a pair mounted above a vanity unit in my youngest's bedroom, with a single mains halogen in between. they give a VERY white light, (make the halogen look yellow), and have been in use for three years now.

Alcazar

I prefer the LV ones, in fact I've just finished replacing the last of the mains ones, the LV bulbs last longer and consume considerably less power too. As previously stated the key is decent quality transformers :thumb:

Thanks guys. Will the LV's provide enough light for my hallway though? I use 9 of them.

Can't honestly see how an LV light can use less power than the equivalent 230V unit, if both are rated at the same Wattage?

Alcazar

Been covered on here before, 50W is 50W whatever the voltage. Even seen it argued that LV uses more energy due to transformer losses.

Been covered on here before, 50W is 50W whatever the voltage. Even seen it argued that LV uses more energy due to transformer losses.


Spot on!

No transformers are 100% effecient and thus a 50w 12volt halogen will consume a tiny bit more electricity than a 50w Gu10.

The soft start effect of an electronic transformer helps reduce the inrush current on the filament of a 12volt lamp. Gu10's have a large inrush current on start up which is why many dimmers tell you to derate the dimmer load by 50% on mains halogen lamps.
The net result is that 12volt halogen lamps typically last an awful lot longer than main halogen lamps. I've had 12volt Halogens last for 6 years in a kitchen.

The quality of reflectors has 2 impacts. Osram do a Titanium range which have a very high quality metal (not painted like the cheap lamps) reflector which directs the majority of heat forwards and reduces the heat build up at the back of the lamp thus extending its life. These reflectors also stay bright and give crip white light throughout the life of the lamp. The painted reflectors soon yellow and go crazed which makes the lamps look duller.

I found changing the light switches helped - I now use Lutron (http://www.screwfix.com/search.do;jsessionid=2EAJHTOBXLJPKCSTHZOSFFQ?_dync harset=UTF-8&fh_search=lkutron+rania) which are expensive, but fantastic.

They have a fade on and fade off, so I suspect that 240v halogens are just more fragile when turning on.

I've swapped all my low voltage for mains for the reasons others have stated - no transformers to go wrong, bulbs lock in etc

Sorry: the following post gets a bit sad and geeky, as I investigated the same myself. In my experience, LV MR16 bulbs last MUCH longer than mains GU10. This when using five MR16 lights in teh soffits out side, and 3 GU10. Used for about eight hours a day over eight years

The MR16 fittings are "Bell" conversion plates (basically its an adpater that converts a big hole intended for a R60 spotlight to one that takes a MR16, which inlcudes a transformer - one per bulb). The Bell transformers supplied are old fashioned toridal transformers (big round blue thing, size of a 750ml tin of paint). Presumably non-regulated (voltage out of them is about 11.5v when under load and about 12.5v open circuit - I measured it when doing my LED coversion). Maybe bacause they under-volt slightly the bulbs last longer?

Conversely, my Uncle has electronic transformers (use PWM - pulses instead of a transformer - so they should be called transformerless, I noted some manufacturers seem be bit vague on the latter bit) and his MR16 lights don't last that long, in his opinion. So maybe PWM electronic types allow larger voltage spikes through than proper wire-wound transformers?

Anyhoo. Point being they are over eight years old now. And I still have 3 of the original MR16 bell bulbs - they lasted about fives years used on a automatic timer daily every night (they still work, just now they are no brighter than a 25watt MR16 and all the siver has burnt off :D )!! Whilst the GU10 bulbs of various brands on the same circuit would last about 6 months max.

I swapped them all for 25watt bulbs (energy saving ;) ) 3 years ago, even though the three of the original MR16 50watts were still working, and found the 25watt bulbs didn't last as long as the orginal 50watts. But the MR16s still outlasted the GU10 versions.

Now on LED bulbs on everything - ('kin expensive :o ) warm white MR16s: Initial Lights (http://www.initiallights.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=21_32&products_id=96) and Initial Lights (http://www.initiallights.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=21_32&products_id=90). Plus some cheap and nasty £5 GU10 jobbies (they are down the side, so the bluish-white colour isn't important). And a Megaman 11watt GU10 compact fluorescent above the door. So now using 32watts every night instead of 400watts!

(note: incase anyone looks into it, the "Brilliance" high output LED MR16s CANNOT be used with electronic transformer/transformerless mains supplies - I have the manufacturer's data sheets which make a strong point of this, make your own mind up of why they stated that :nono: - can be found here: http://www.brilliance-led.com/pro/Uploadpdf/20074701437967.pdf - page 2 - highlighted in RED).

hmm i think mine were LV MR16`s

when we had a sit down and talked about rising energy prices i had a look at them (fitted before i moved in) and i had 8 x 20watt jobbies in the living room

2 downlight bars with 4 on each,

i tried fitting 8 LED lamps, but the light output was crap :lol1:
i ended up leaving 1 normal 20watt bumper per bar and having the rest as LEDs for effect, to be honest i bought my led ones in bulk on ebay from japan/china/somewhere

about 1 month later the transformer blew in one of the bars, i did wonder if this was something to do with the led lamps, rang the manufacturer and was quoted something like £30 for a new part :eek: with B&Q selling a brand new same model bar (micromark galaxy or something like that) for around £44 :cuckoo:

i figured i had nothing to lose so bought a cheap £3 transformer rated @ 60watt from ebay :lol1: and trimmed it down so it would fit in the base and it all worked :lol1:

just need to remember not to ever fit 4 x 20 watt bulbs in it, iirc the led ones are about 1 watt each, so 160 watts total has went down to 46 watts total (usually we only have 1 bar on anyway, so 23 watts), much better!!

i did fit some 240v ones in the bathroom later on, although they are quite blue/white in colour, so we used them to aim at the bath to make it look nice and blue`ish while keeping a main yellow style one for the middle of the bathroom

LED output is a bit crap compared with normal IMO, unless you have a few of them

Yeah, even the super bright (and super expensive) LED ones I have are at most equivelent to a 15watt halogen (20watt incadecent)...great upgrade for torches, mind.

The cheap LED bulbs (the ones made with about 20 odd normal LEDs) are probably equivelent to a 5 watt night-light bulb! :D