Just a quick comment about Champions League. As well as having 2 English sides in the final, not one of the 4 English teams went out of the competition to a foreign side. I bet no other country will ever achieve that statistic again.

Shows you how little effort the English players from those clubs put in when they have an England shirt on doesn't it?

yes but most of these teams are made up of foreign players ........ and very few english players, perhaps we could get Ronaldo and Tevez to become English?

I mean even the damn manager is foreign, he cant even speak English

Or is it cause they all have foreign superstars that got them that far in the champions league and they make our english players look a bit better than they really are.

There's nothing wrong with English players. England are among the top 8 teams in the world. We just think we have a divine right to be number 1 , that's the problem.

At least United are the one English team who have a fair few British/Irish players, this isn't a bad line up:

Foster
Neville
Ferdinand
Brown
O Shea
Fletcher
Scholes
Carrick
Giggs
Rooney
?

OK, so we'll have to start the game with 10 men! ;)

It's about the blend in a team. The English players are very good individually.

Gerrard has been Liverpool's best players for years, Rio, Carrick, Scholes, Brown and Hargreaves were superb for United last night, Terry and Lampard the main stays at Chelsea. the difference is their talents are blended with the others from the foreign players who generally are technically better and more comfortable on the ball. This gives you the drive, fight and power of the English game with the finesse, skill and tricks from the continent and further afield. until we change the way we teach kids the game nothing will change.

There's nothing wrong with English players. England are among the top 8 teams in the world. We just think we have a divine right to be number 1 , that's the problem.

If that's true about "top 8", why didn't England even qualify for Euro 2008 then? That's 14 teams just from Europe who appear to better than England (exc hosts). Factor in the rest of the world (Brazil, Argies etc) and I think we can honestly say that we are far from Top 8.

Ah, forgot Hargreaves, I'll stick him in midfield and put Giggs up front with Rooney. :thumb:

Here's the equivalent Arsenal side: :lol1:

?
?
?
?
Hoyte
?
?
?
Walcott
?
?

I'd like to see all "English" clubs be restricted to take on players who are born and bread in the home town of the club only.

Also England to have players born and bread in ... England!
I'm sure it would shake the system up a bit :lol1:

If that's true about "top 8", why didn't England even qualify for Euro 2008 then? That's 14 teams just from Europe who appear to better than England (exc hosts). Factor in the rest of the world (Brazil, Argies etc) and I think we can honestly say that we are far from Top 8.

A couple of bad peformances does not make you a bad team.

We aren't far from top 8 - We are top 8.

See if you can name more than 7 team that would beat us consistantly.

England's official FIFA world Ranking: 11
That will presumably fall further when the other Euro teams start playing without us in the summer.

FIFA.com - Ranking Table (http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/ranking/lastranking/gender=m/fullranking.html)

I thinkt he "too many foreign players" argument is uttely flawed.

And here's the reason.

The level you have to be to be able to play in the Premiership has risen. THis is partially due to the influx of foregn players.

Therefore in order to suceed in the Premiership, you have to be of a higher quality, than, say , 10 years ago.

The result of this is that only the best English players will make it in the Prem. As opposed ot merely "ok" players making it.

Te end result is the best crop of a talent we have seen in a generation, because the bar has been raised and the wheat is seperated from the chaff.

If you have to choose a team of player, I would much rahter choose from a pool 60 of the highest qualiaty, than 120 of average quality.

People are assuming that if you limit the number of players, that the quality of English players will get better. Nothing could be further from the turth - all it means is that the level required to play in the premiership will be lowered.

England's official FIFA world Ranking: 11
That will presumably fall further when the other Euro teams start playing without us in the summer.

FIFA.com - Ranking Table (http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/ranking/lastranking/gender=m/fullranking.html)

the FIFA rankings aren't worth ****. Th ELO rankings are where it's at - A far more accurate system - And England are 8th under that measure.

World Football Elo Ratings (http://www.eloratings.net/world.html)

I think you will find almost all the team rankings in the ELO table are far more realisitic.

I am simply not having it that Greece could consistantly beat England, which is what the FIFA rankings suggest.

the FIFA rankings aren't worth ****. Th ELO rankings are where it's at - A far more accurate system - And England are 8th under that measure.

World Football Elo Ratings (http://www.eloratings.net/world.html)

I think you will find almost all the team rankings in the ELO table are far more realisitic.

I am simply not having it that Greece could consistantly beat England, which is what the FIFA rankings suggest.

Yeah and nor would Croatia, would they (ranked below England in 11 or 13 depending on what list you prefer?). Oh hang on didn't we lose to them both home and away recently?

Who cares, its only football! :D

I'd like to see all "English" clubs be restricted to take on players who are born and bread in the home town of the club only.

Also England to have players born and bread in ... England!
I'm sure it would shake the system up a bit :lol1:

yes but the modern 'game' has feck all to do sportsmanship - its just business

I'd like to see all "English" clubs be restricted to take on players who are born and bread in the home town of the club only.

Also England to have players born and bread in ... England!
I'm sure it would shake the system up a bit :lol1:
I'm sure its down to some insane EU employment ruling that we can't have capped numbers of foreign players playing in our leagues.

Yeah and nor would Croatia, would they (ranked below England in 11 or 13 depending on what list you prefer?). Oh hang on didn't we lose to them both home and away recently?
What are you saying here, then, that the FIFA list is ****e or the EOL one is?

the problem with the English national team isn't the players, it's the manager IMHO.

Who was the last really great england manager? Who was the last english manager to win the premiership or a european trophy?

its ok, give it 20 years and the england national team will be full of players with 'ski' on their surnames;)

the problem with the English national team isn't the players, it's the manager IMHO.

Who was the last really great england manager? Who was the last english manager to win the premiership or a european trophy?

You really think? We've had some top names, including the one we have now, in no way do I think that means we are going to win the World Cup, the blend of players just isnt there. We do have some great players but the sporting pedigree isnt bred into them anymore, its no longer being taught to go out and win, we dont care about the losers who cry etc, kids are being taught be half decent at football and you'll be rich and shag a member of a girls band etc.

Years ago kids would dream of playing in the FA Cup final or earning an England cap, unfortunately I dont believe thats the case anymore. Off course there is the exception but the exception doesnt make a winning team.

the problem with the English national team isn't the players, it's the manager IMHO.

Who was the last really great england manager? Who was the last english manager to win the premiership or a european trophy?

Sven Goran Ericsson, and of course, the current Manager Capello.

Do you mean "English" Manager or "England" manager?

A couple of bad peformances does not make you a bad team.

We aren't far from top 8 - We are top 8.

See if you can name more than 7 team that would beat us consistantly.

Scotland
Scotland
Scotland
Scotland
Scotland
Scotland
Scotland
Scotland

;)

England are a top 8 team yes, they are just under achievers. Scotland had more right after their performances in the qualifiers than England to be there.

If you could have the English team with the Scottish drive and spirit, they would almost certainly be a top 3 side.

What are you saying here, then, that the FIFA list is ****e or the EOL one is?

Just that both these sets of rankings are probably not purely based on your opinion of who is better than who.

You say that a couple of bad performances don't make a bad team. Well we'll agree to differ on that point, but what is unequivocal is that England finished a poor third in an easy Euro 2008 qualification group behind teams now ranked (by ELO or FIFA respectively) 12 or 13 (Croatia) and 28 or 25 (Russia). I would suggest that the evidence shows that we are a bad team.

Scotland
Scotland
Scotland
Scotland
Scotland
Scotland
Scotland
Scotland

;)

:D


England are a top 8 team yes, they are just under achievers. Scotland had more right after their performances in the qualifiers than England to be there.

If you could have the English team with the Scottish drive and spirit, they would almost certainly be a top 3 side.

:D

[/quote]

When it comes to England V Scotland I thinky ou can throw the ranking out of the window. Like any Derby game its all about desire, and the head to heads between England and Scotland reflect this, they are fairly even

You say that a couple of bad performances don't make a bad team. Well we'll agree to differ on that point, but what is unequivocal is that England finished a poor third in an easy Euro 2008 qualification group behind teams now ranked (by ELO or FIFA respectively) 12 or 13 (Croatia) and 28 or 25 (Russia). I would suggest that the evidence shows that we are a bad team.

I think the team and individual players are right up there. I just think the Manager was a complete twat.

When Sven Was in charge, for all his faults, he won games. We lost just 4 competitive games under his charge, and 2 of those were on pens.

I don't think it is any coincidence that the same players under Sven all of the sudden struggled to qualify from a seemingly easy group under McClaren

I think the team and individual players are right up there. I just think the Manager was a complete twat.

When Sven Was in charge, for all his faults, he won games. We lost just 4 competitive games under his charge, and 2 of those were on pens.

I don't think it is any coincidence that the same players under Sven all of the sudden struggled to qualify from a seemingly easy group under McClaren

I agree 100%:thumb:

When footy fans talk about the team that they support, why do they say 'we lost' or 'we won'? Wish I could do that from sitting on the sofa! :rolleyes: