I am planning on getting a Canon EOS 30D DSLR soon. I will also need a decent zoom lens, perhaps 28-300 Range for motorsport (F1, WRC etc...).
Plus a decent mini zoom lens, 17-55 range.

Does anyone have any experience of standard Canon vs. Canon 'L' series lenses?
Also is IS (Image Stabilizer) really necessary?

My dad is thinking about getting a Nikon D200 and he already has a F60 plus three lenses. However, the new D80 seems very good. Does anyone have any views please? Also is it really worth playing the extra £350 for the D200?

n.b. just to note, my dad has been taking slides for 40+ years mainly of civil and military aircraft. He has got two Pentax MX's with three really good lenses (metal body ones) and a Pentax MZ-5.

n.b.2 We have read the reviews in what digital camera mag (special issue 117). also read dp review site.

Thanks in adance
-Darren

Not many questions then ;)

I am planning on getting a Canon EOS 30D DSLR soon. I will also need a decent zoom lens, perhaps 28-300 Range for motorsport (F1, WRC etc...).
Plus a decent mini zoom lens, 17-55 range.

30D is a great camera. So is 350D, or 400D, or just about any Nikon for that matter. Pentax and Sony also in the frame with very good cameras. But cameras come and go - lenses have a much, much longer lifespan so you really have to make a 'brand system' choice.

Get a 'kit' lens with the camera. They are quite good a very good value. You can't lose. Plus 28mm is too long for a modern crop-sensor D-SLR. Don't think you'll like it. You need 17mm or so. Get a dedicated lens for motorsport. Lots of good advice to be had on here (see current threads below). My choice would be Canon 70-300mm IS, or 100-400mm L IS, but there are lots of options. If you can stretch to a Canon 70-200mm f/2.8 L IS plus 1.4x extender... :) On the other hand, Nikon do a very nice 18-200mm with VR (Nikon's IS) which might suit you a treat. Or may be too short for some motorsport - no doubt others will advise. Lenses are very hard to choose - suggest you start with the minimum outlay to save expesnive mistakes.

Does anyone have any experience of standard Canon vs. Canon 'L' series lenses?
Also is IS (Image Stabilizer) really necessary?

IS is fantastic, and gets more worthwhile the longer the lens you're using. No question. Canon 'L' lenses are a brilliant marketing device but IMHO wasted on most people. I have seven Canon lenses, none of them 'L' and if my images are lacking in quality, it's very rarely the lens' fault. 'L' lenses are top quality of course, but aimed at professionals that give them a pounding. Build quality tends to take priority over optical, with weather-sealing apparently a must-have option for some. What's the point without a weather-sealed camera (30D isn't)? And even then 'L' lenses are not immune to waether damage (see thread below).

My dad is thinking about getting a Nikon D200 and he already has a F60 plus three lenses. However, the new D80 seems very good. Does anyone have any views please? Also is it really worth playing the extra £350 for the D200?

If you're dad has good Nikon lenses that are fully compatible with current camera (check carefully), it makes sense to consider a collaboration. On the other hand, if you're standing together at a rally stage and both want the same lens, you're going to be in bother :lol1:

n.b. just to note, my dad has been taking slides for 40+ years mainly of civil and military aircraft. He has got two Pentax MX's with three really good lenses (metal body ones) and a Pentax MZ-5.

n.b.2 We have read the reviews in what digital camera mag (special issue 117). also read dp review site.

Thanks in adance
-Darren

Sorry to say, but I suspect the Pentax kit is history. Worth checking out the lenses, though, especially if they work with the K10D. Sorry, I've no idea on this :(

Richard.

I am SC008Y_MAD's Dad.

Thanks for all the useful info. Having spent 40 years using slide film and working with 'standard' lenses of 50mm, I have still to get to grips with the way that focal lengths work differently with digital. You say that 17mm would be needed rather than 28mm, which to my experience are ultra wide angle lenses. So can you explain (sorry about this!) how a 28mm lens is too long for a modern crop-sensor D-SLR? I guess this is why some of the packages we have looked at come with a basic lens of, say, 17-55mm?

As for Nikon, we have an F60 with 3 lenses - AF Nikkor f1.8 50mm, AF Nikkor f4-5.6D 35-80mm and Sigma f4-5.6 DL Macro Super 70-300mm. How can I find out whether these are compatible with, say, the Nikon D80 D-SLR apart from finding out the hard way when the camera has been bought? Jessops said they are OK but then they would, wouldn't they?

Cheers, await you further reply.

John

The sensor in the D80/D200 is smaller than a traditional 35mm frame, so when you attach lenses to it the focal length is effectively increased by 1.5 times, as only light from the central portion of the lens falls on the sensor. Thus, your 50mm Nikkor becomes a 75mm.

That's why you need ultra-wide lenses of 18mm just to get you an effective focal length of 27mm. The positive side is that your telephoto lenses become much longer!

Your Nikkor lenses should work OK, not sure about the Sigma though, depends how old it is. :)

Thanks for this - it's all perfectly clear now - I hope.

Cheers,

John

Also note: different DSLRs have different sized sensors, there's no standard.

As far as I know, Nikons all have a 1.5x effective focal length multiplier. Canon's cheaper models (up to and including the 30D) have a slightly smaller sensor giving a 1.6x multiplier. The 1D, 1DmkII and 1DmkIIN are 1.3x, and the 5D, 1DS and 1DSmkII are full-frame (ie. 1x, same as on film).

So, when you're choosing lenses, it might make sense to bear in mind what body you might end up with. If, for example, you bought a Canon 30D today and then decided in a year or two that you fancied a 5D, all your lenses would give quite a different field of view.

IS is fantastic, and gets more worthwhile the longer the lens you're using.

Agreed. IS isn't essential, but it really helps a lot, especially with motorsport photography. For example, on my zoom (the 100-400L IS), you can switch the IS to work on only one axis. This enables you to dampen out any vertical movement whilst panning with the car, (to get those blurred background shots). It's a lot harder to do this sort of thing without IS. Likewise in low light situations, you can handhold at much slower shutter speeds (I can easily handhold mine at about a 5th of a second).

Canon 'L' lenses are a brilliant marketing device but IMHO wasted on most people.

I disagree here. I've got several Canon lenses, and I get better results from the L glass every time. Images are sharper, they have better colour reproduction, little or no chromatic abboration (sp?). Perhaps it depends on what body you have them attached to. I've got mine on a 5D so perhaps the higher pixel count (full frame sensor) etc makes the camera more sensitive to these things. Having said that, I could definitely see a difference between normal and L glass on my old 10D as well...


Build quality tends to take priority over optical, with weather-sealing apparently a must-have option for some.

That's not true. They are better built than normal lenses, but they also have superior optics internally. Whether you need this increase in quality depends on how much you are going to use it, how much you want to spend, and what body you end up attatching it to :)

Thanks for all your help SN'er photographters :thumb:

Yesterday my dad phoned around a few Jessops stores to see if they had what we wanted. We ended up going to Watford's Harlquin store.

We brought (Not really until 2008) Nikon D80 with a Sigma 18-50 F3.5-5.6 DC NAF lens for my dad. He decieded against the D200 as it looked too much of a camera to understand and use all the featres. But he said it was just too chunky for him. So he settled for the D80.

He also brought also a 2.0gb extreme3 SD card.

My dad got me the Canon 30D with the 18-55 lens (kit) and the Canon EF70-200mm F4 L IS USM lens :norty: and got 100 quid off it.

also got a 2.0gb extreme3 CF card and a the extreme 3 in 1 card reader which my dad and I are going to share.

For the lenses we got Skylight 1B for the mini zooms and a UV filter for the L. Just to protect the lense.

I have just got to get a bag for this kit. I want to get Lowepro backpack one. Lowepro - Backpacks (http://www.lowepro.com/Products/Backpacks/)

I am sure there is a thead on here about these, so I would be much oblidged if someone could post it for me :) Thanks

Darren

Nice choice :) Make sure those are good quality filters (Hoya Pro-1?)

Canon's 1.4x Extender is supposed to go well with that 70-200mm, too.

Richard.

Richard, Those filters are Jessops, which that say are made by Hoya??

I got a bag in the end, a Lowepro Mini Trekker AW and I just love it.

We brought a Sigma 18-50 F3.5-5.6 DC NAF lens for my dad.

Take it back! Jessops really p*ss me off when they recommend tat like that for such a good camera. It's obvious that they have some sort of incentive to sell them, but God knows what it is. :mad:

Have a look at these (http://www.fredmiranda.com/reviews/showproduct.php?product=189&sort=7&cat=37&page=1) reviews.

He'd be much better off (albeit for a bit more cash) with one of these (http://www.fredmiranda.com/reviews/showproduct.php?product=232&sort=7&cat=37&page=1) or one of these (http://www.fredmiranda.com/reviews/showproduct.php?product=227&sort=7&cat=28&page=2).

Rant over! :D

ps, seems like you got the best deal :thumb:

Thanks for all your help SN'er photographters :thumb:

Yesterday my dad phoned around a few Jessops stores to see if they had what we wanted. We ended up going to Watford's Harlquin store.

We brought (Not really until 2008) Nikon D80 with a Sigma 18-50 F3.5-5.6 DC NAF lens for my dad. He decieded against the D200 as it looked too much of a camera to understand and use all the featres. But he said it was just too chunky for him. So he settled for the D80.

He also brought also a 2.0gb extreme3 SD card.

My dad got me the Canon 30D with the 18-55 lens (kit) and the Canon EF70-200mm F4 L IS USM lens :norty: and got 100 quid off it.

also got a 2.0gb extreme3 CF card and a the extreme 3 in 1 card reader which my dad and I are going to share.

For the lenses we got Skylight 1B for the mini zooms and a UV filter for the L. Just to protect the lense.

I have just got to get a bag for this kit. I want to get Lowepro backpack one. Lowepro - Backpacks (http://www.lowepro.com/Products/Backpacks/)

I am sure there is a thead on here about these, so I would be much oblidged if someone could post it for me :) Thanks

Darren

Hi Darren & welcome to the best bit of Scoobynet :thumb:

The kit lens is ok - yours should be the usm focusing version?

Its a bit soft wide open but at f5.6/f8 its better. Compared to the 70-200 f4L IS (great choice by the way L :) ) the kit lens will feel pretty cheap, but it does the job.

There's a decent market for them on ebay if you decide to upgrade.

As for your 70-200, the lens hood acts as a great lens protector as well when in use.

Can I ask why you went with Canon when your dad already has a few nikkor lenses?

Seems strange, you won't be able to swap gear if you are out together.

I thought that, but maybe there is reason Dad doesn't want his son borrowing his equipment!

Thanks guys.

The reason for me getting a Canon, is that I a) really like Canon camera equipment and b) this model seemed like a really good choice to have.

The Nikon F60 my dad brought for me to use and I did take some really good shots with it and I liked using the camera. I did not want to go Digital down the Nikon.

As my dad has used Pentax cameras all his life and did not want to get a Pentax DSLR (for obvious reasons) he was looking at getting a Nikon as one of us has to go that way as with the lenes with the F60. So we diecided that my dad would have the Nikon camera equipment and I would have a system of my own Also as Pumpkin mentioned, we would both want the same lenes at the same time, so woul would have to buy double lenes. I liked the Canon 30D ever since it came out I think that answers your question?

Thanks guys.

The reason for me getting a Canon, is that I a) really like Canon camera equipment and b) this model seemed like a really good choice to have.

The Nikon F60 my dad brought for me to use and I did take some really good shots with it and I liked using the camera. I did not want to go Digital down the Nikon.

As my dad has used Pentax cameras all his life and did not want to get a Pentax DSLR (for obvious reasons) he was looking at getting a Nikon as one of us has to go that way as with the lenes with the F60. So we diecided that my dad would have the Nikon camera equipment and I would have a system of my own Also as Pumpkin mentioned, we would both want the same lenes at the same time, so woul would have to buy double lenes. I liked the Canon 30D ever since it came out I think that answers your question?


Good plan :thumb:

I take it from your comments you took advantage of the buy now pay in 2008deal ?

Yes we did.