Hi,

I'm looking into changing to a water meter but also, mainly to save water at the same time. I know about all the obvious things and am also looking at rain water harvesting, which is fairly simple. BUT how to figure out if vaious ideas actually save water?

Well, I'd like to fit a flow meter to the inlet to the mains tank. Actually, it may have to go under the sink as the mains also feed the downstairs loo. But whatever. The thing is I have never had to look into flow meters before and so it's not an area I'm familiar with (did fluid dynamics at Uni but a) a long time ago and b) can't remember any 'measure mains flow' type questions!!). The flow meters I do find have descriptions that make it clear what they do IF you know what you're talking about .... doh .....

So, does anyone have any recommendations for something that is a) cheap (ish) b) easy to fit (i.e. can be inserted into 15/22mm pipework) and c) measures the amount of water passing through (not worried about units as calculators are wonderful things!).

Ta in advance.

Dave

When your local water authority fit the new meter you will be able to read that surely. 1 cubic meter of water is equal to 1000 litres. Simple.

Chip

I want to do this before deciding whether to go for a meter. I want to be able to get finer granularity than metres cubed as well. The idea is to figure out how much I use now and then see what effect 'water saving' measures have to see if they're worth carrying on with.

Dave

Have you any more details on the systems you're curious about?
I can't think of a water saving feature where it isn't obvious whether or not you're actually saving water:wonder:

Have you any more details on the systems you're curious about?
I can't think of a water saving feature where it isn't obvious whether or not you're actually saving water:wonder:

It isn't obvious if you have no way of measuring it .....

But, for example, flow restrictors on taps. Plus 'rainwater harvesting' as they call it these days.

Dave

Out of curiosity, how do flow restrictors on taps save you water?
Surely all that would do is increase the amount of time it takes to get the water required, since in most cases the amount of water takes priority over the time it takes to get it?

Have a browse here. You could also give them a buzz and have a chat.

Kentmeters :::: PRODUCTS & SERVICES :::: Electricity, Water and Energy Meters, Metering Systems, Load Control Solutions (http://www.kentmeters.co.uk/en/products_and_services.shtml)

Out of curiosity, how do flow restrictors on taps save you water?
Surely all that would do is increase the amount of time it takes to get the water required, since in most cases the amount of water takes priority over the time it takes to get it?

Its for those times when you're, say, just rinsing something under the tap. Washing your hands maybe. To be honest, when I look at how I use water at home they wouldn't make a vast difference BUT it all adds up.

David Lock: ta for that link.

Dave

commendable intentions hutton_d
not sure if this well help, but dudley moore of ecologic energy management has been working with systems to save water consumption for some time. no idea whether he may be able to help with the flow issue, but it may be worth asking - ecologic radiator panels save up to 20% off fuel bills (http://www.ecologic.co.uk/)
alternatively, you could try and get hold of an "old" meter and see if that helps you. demolition contractors may be able to assist, although strictly speaking i would expect the ownership of any meters to be retained by the local water authority

ps - i know it doesn't look like it from their website, but they do deal with water rather than just heating! their contact details are on the site if you want to speak to them

Ta Richg. Another area I was looking at! I have at least 5 radiators on outside walls!

Dave

I'd go for a 15mm Kent PSM-T meter. It has been the backbone model for all water companies over the last few decades.
They should read down to 1/10ths of a litre. It also has a reed switch port if you really want to know when water is being used down to every second - a meter dial is quite a coarse method of water measurement.
You'd need a data logger plugged into the reed switch port which is something I could help with.
Ebay has a great choice of meters and I pick up quite a few for my business - industrial water & effluent management.

A meter upstream of a tank only picks up the flow of water to fill the tank from a low ballcock position. It won't tell you what you're using for a particluar use.
If you want to find out real water consumption in order to size a grey or rainwater system then fit a meter after the tank - this won't measure direct mans water use so a second meter may be needed.

I've probably got a few meters hanging around if you want to use them temporarily. Drop me a PM if interested.

Nick

A meter upstream of a tank only picks up the flow of water to fill the tank from a low ballcock position. It won't tell you what you're using for a particluar use.
If you want to find out real water consumption in order to size a grey or rainwater system then fit a meter after the tank - this won't measure direct mans water use so a second meter may be needed.

I've probably got a few meters hanging around if you want to use them temporarily. Drop me a PM if interested.

Nick

Thanks for the offer Nick. Trouble is knowing me I won't get around to using it very soon ...!! :D

I was thinking before the tank because when I'm experimenting I only want to know the overall amount of water I'm using. And I'll need to make a change then try to average it out over at least a week or otherwise the results could get skewed by, for example, being away on business for a couple of days.

As for the grey water/rain water thing, grey water would be very useful as toilet flushing is meant to account for a bout a 1/3 rd of water used. But there are issues with not letting it stand etc etc. I've only found one place to get any sort of residential treatment for grey water and that's Brac Systems Grey Water Recycling (http://www.bracsystems.com/home.html) I haven't enquired about cost or anything yet. Unless I can find out that I could just use this direct after filtering just the crud out then I'll just go for a rainwater system.

I was thinking large tank, say 10K litres (over a month at *normal* usage) with a pump to refill the loft tank as it gets empty. I can easily divert all my guttering to a tank. In the loft I have another small tank for the mains water and use the old cold tank for rainwater. When the rainwater runs out then the mains tank fills the 'rainwater' tank. That way rainwater is used for everything - apart from the kitchen tap on the way into the house ....

Sounds like a plan anyway .... the other thing is to get the tank relatively cheaply. No point in spending £5K to save £250 pa .....

As for Ebay - what to search for? I did 'water meter' and got zip - or is it a case of checking every few days?

Cheers

Dave

I search for "water meter" or "water flow".
You have to wade through several pages though.
I wouldn't buy a s/hand one at all as they tend to under-read with age, and I don't like the sound of ones used for "filling ponds" - not what I want drinking water to go through.

Recycling systems will be made up of a collection, storage, treatment and return system, depending on the final use of the water and existing site conditions but payback will usually be in terms of years if not decades for a household I'm afraid.

Nick

Ta Richg. Another area I was looking at! I have at least 5 radiators on outside walls!

Dave

no problem. bumped into dudley a few years ago (friend of the family) at the kitchens and bathrooms show at excel - he was specialising in water-saving systems for local authorities and housing associations at the time; 24deg shower for 7 mins at the press of a button, or x litres of y deg water in your bath at the touch of a button etc etc. never used nay of their stuff in the homes we build, but their prices looked competitve compared to everyday brassware

no problem. bumped into dudley a few years ago (friend of the family) at the kitchens and bathrooms show at excel - he was specialising in water-saving systems for local authorities and housing associations at the time; ....

Got a reply back from them (a 'Mark') bu no joy on the flow meter. helpful with the rad. bits though so I may well treat myself after Xmas.

I search for "water meter" or "water flow".
You have to wade through several pages though.
I wouldn't buy a s/hand one at all as they tend to under-read with age, and I don't like the sound of ones used for "filling ponds" - not what I want drinking water to go through.

Recycling systems will be made up of a collection, storage, treatment and return system, depending on the final use of the water and existing site conditions but payback will usually be in terms of years if not decades for a household I'm afraid.

Nick

Ta Nick. I've found one on Fleabay that I'll bid on. For the money (assuming I get it) I can clean it up and it'll be fine ....

As for payback on recycling systems I can see your point if you have a bought in grey water system but a rainwater system should be dead cheap. At least the way I would have it configured.

Anyhow, if the gov. was serious about water conservation they would be doing the research into this stuff and making new builds have rain and grey water recycling and giving grants for older properties. But hey, I guess it's easier just to tax people .....

Dave