As above, has it got one built in?

Opened the car door with the key (alarm still armed) Stuck the key in the ignition and the car started. After about 15 secs the siren started blairing.

Phil.

it has an optional single cut,just depends who fitted it and if they wired it up.if your car has i imob in the key as standard prob not wired in:wonder:

Thanks.

I'll be taking the motor back to ask a few questions. Whats the point in paying good money to have a cat 1 alarm fitted if they only do half a job :mad: .
Some people just make me fooking mad :mad:

Phil.

im not sure it is a cat 1:wonder: from memory a 3198 is the same as a 3193 but with a battery back up siren.if it is a cat 1 it will be a 2>1 up grade using the cars o.e imob in the key hence no seperate imob off alarm.what car is it on?i will check tommorrow when im back at work and not been drinking:norty:

The alarm is fitted to MY00 classic. Replaced my original cat 1 which had fooked up. The techs in the shop told me it was a cat 1, better be or i'll be asking some serious quetions.
Thanks for your infor and help Steve. Appreciate it.

Phil

IS YOUR CAR A UK OR IMPORT?IF A UK IT SHOULD HAVE A CAT2 IMOB IN THE KEY(FLASHING LIGHT IN DASH CLOCKS)SO ALARM WILL BE A 2-1 UPGRADE IF ITS A IMPORT I WOULD BE HAVING A WORD:eek:

Its a UK model. I had a word with the company and they said exactly what you have told me Steve. So basically I have a cat 1 alarm fitted. Cheers for your help. :thumb:

Phil.

IS YOUR CAR A UK OR IMPORT?IF A UK IT SHOULD HAVE A CAT2 IMOB IN THE KEY(FLASHING LIGHT IN DASH CLOCKS)SO ALARM WILL BE A 2-1 UPGRADE IF ITS A IMPORT I WOULD BE HAVING A WORD:eek:

The factory transponder immobiliser, whether on a UK or import vehicle does not have a Thatcham evaluation number and cannot be used as the basis for a Category 2-1 upgrade!
A full Cat 1 with two independent, passivly arming immobiliser circuits must be fitted on all aftermarket installations - if you can start your vehicle with the alarm armed/sounding this is clearly not the case.

SS

I can start the motor with the alarm sounding. This mean i've been had???? Should i be taking my car back and asking why????

Phil.

as of 1997 any uk car with transponder imob is valid for alarm system thats a 2-1 upgrade:confused:

as of 1997 any uk car with transponder imob is valid for alarm system thats a 2-1 upgrade:confused:

Not so - I hope that you're not an installer!!

You can only use the standard transponder as the basis for a Cat 2 to 1 upgrade if it has it's own Category 2 evaluation number and you can produce this on the documentation.
Not all transponder immobilisers are Thatcham evaluated for category 2 approval in their own right

In the case of all Subaru models, whether UK cars or imports, the factory transponder immobiliser is not tested independently for Thatcham Cat 2 compliance.
UK vehicles with the "OE alarm" are tested as a complete vehicle to Thatcham Cat 1 criteria, and the whole vehicle given an evaluation number.
If you then remove any part of the evaluated system (the OE alarm for example) it is no longer Cat 1 and does not revert to Cat 2 - there is no Cat 2 evaluation number for the factory immobiliser alone!!

Go to thatcham.org - The Motor Insurance Repair Research Centre (http://www.thatcham.org) and check the evaluation numbers for yourself.
Once at the site, click the SECURITY tab at the top of the page, then click CAT 2 from the list on the left, select PASSENGER CARS from the option and look under Subaru - You will see there are no Cat 2 listings for Subaru vehicles, so the standard immobiliser CAN NOT be used as a basis for a 2 to 1 upgrade as it is not evaluated!
If you click on CAT 1 you will see all Subaru models are listed as Cat 1 standard fitment - this is of course for UK cars only with the "OE alarm".

In short Phil, your UK 00MY vehicle was Cat 1 approved, however removing the "OE alarm" invalidated the standards vehicle approval. Although a factory transponder is present it is not Cat 2 evaluated (hence no listing on the above web site) and cannot be used as a basis for 2 to 1 upgrade and so a full Cat 1 system should have been fitted - this is clearly not the case as a Cat 1 system would have 2 passively arming immobilisation circuits, which would not allow you to start the engine with the alarm sounding.
Currently your vehicle isn't fitted with a Thatcham approved immobiliser - I would take this up with the installer.

I doubt that they have done this deliberately, but I do find it disturbing that a professional alarm installation company do not understand the Thatcham issues involved here - The standard security fitment policy of all manufacturers is clear to see on the above site.

I presume that they have given you a certificate of installation for the Cat 2 to 1 system that shows the 2-1 systems evaluation number?
I would tell them that your insurance company have also asked for the evaluation number for the existing Cat 2 immobiliser that the upgrade is based upon and see what their reaction is to that - as you can see on the Thatcham listings, there is no Cat 2 evaluation number for them to produce.

SS

Not so - I hope that you're not an installer!!

You can only use the standard transponder as the basis for a Cat 2 to 1 upgrade if it has it's own Category 2 evaluation number and you can produce this on the documentation.
Not all transponder immobilisers are Thatcham evaluated for category 2 approval in their own right

In the case of all Subaru models, whether UK cars or imports, the factory transponder immobiliser is not tested independently for Thatcham Cat 2 compliance.
UK vehicles with the "OE alarm" are tested as a complete vehicle to Thatcham Cat 1 criteria, and the whole vehicle given an evaluation number.
If you then remove any part of the evaluated system (the OE alarm for example) it is no longer Cat 1 and does not revert to Cat 2 - there is no Cat 2 evaluation number for the factory immobiliser alone!!

Go to thatcham.org - The Motor Insurance Repair Research Centre (http://www.thatcham.org) and check the evaluation numbers for yourself.
Once at the site, click the SECURITY tab at the top of the page, then click CAT 2 from the list on the left, select PASSENGER CARS from the option and look under Subaru - You will see there are no Cat 2 listings for Subaru vehicles, so the standard immobiliser CAN NOT be used as a basis for a 2 to 1 upgrade as it is not evaluated!
If you click on CAT 1 you will see all Subaru models are listed as Cat 1 standard fitment - this is of course for UK cars only with the "OE alarm".

In short Phil, your UK 00MY vehicle was Cat 1 approved, however removing the "OE alarm" invalidated the standards vehicle approval. Although a factory transponder is present it is not Cat 2 evaluated (hence no listing on the above web site) and cannot be used as a basis for 2 to 1 upgrade and so a full Cat 1 system should have been fitted - this is clearly not the case as a Cat 1 system would have 2 passively arming immobilisation circuits, which would not allow you to start the engine with the alarm sounding.
Currently your vehicle isn't fitted with a Thatcham approved immobiliser - I would take this up with the installer.

I doubt that they have done this deliberately, but I do find it disturbing that a professional alarm installation company do not understand the Thatcham issues involved here - The standard security fitment policy of all manufacturers is clear to see on the above site.

I presume that they have given you a certificate of installation for the Cat 2 to 1 system that shows the 2-1 systems evaluation number?
I would tell them that your insurance company have also asked for the evaluation number for the existing Cat 2 immobiliser that the upgrade is based upon and see what their reaction is to that - as you can see on the Thatcham listings, there is no Cat 2 evaluation number for them to produce.

SS

SS, cheers for the info. The car is going in on Monday as I have a few questions to ask. I do have a certificate from the company which I will take with me. The immobiliser was working fine on the OE alarm, it was the siren output that was fooked. The company told me that there was no output hence the upgrade. Basically I want to know if the car is Thatcham approved and are they going to fix the immobiliser? Whats the point in having an alarm bleeting if you can still start the car???:mad:

Phil.