what the verdict on the aprilia are they any good for quality , carnt be that much worse than a gixer ..... thinking of changing to a upright position as i commute to work on a cb500 the whole sitting and riding is much more enjoyable
let me know your comments for or against .:notworthy :eek:

I have ridden both bikes and they are totaly different. I personally prefer sports bikes but the Aprillia is a right piece of kit. Feels strange ridding something upright that goes like stink, corners and brakes. Plus more chance of keeping your licence on the naked bike as you tend to ride sub 100mph.

sub 100 i do that on my cb500 , its the position of the upright i like might give the gixer one more summer see if i like it its fast its just not that comfortable in comparison to an upright .:thumb:

btt:thumb:

Go and test ride the Tuono, you may not like the power delivery at first, but I prefer the big torque twins over the screaming 4's after riding both, each to their own I suppose

:thumb:

I have ridden both bikes and they are totaly different. I personally prefer sports bikes but the Aprillia is a right piece of kit.

Erm they are both sports bikes ain't they:wonder: the prilla is basically an RSV with less fairing and straght bars.

Bet you would love the prilla wheeeeelie wheeeliee much

Was in the same situ myself, had a GSXR1000K2 & have sold this buying brand new KTM 990 Superduke.
It's now having it's first service so can start reving it out now.
Even whilst running it in, gave the fun factor at much more realistic speeds & was still able to turn/handle like a sportsbike.
I was getting worried with the Gixer that you were often travelling at 120-140 with relative ease, which is now prison sentence territory rather than a ban so made the decision and am not regretting it.
Theres gotta be a trend now as more of the manufacturers are making unfaired bikes that handle/perform.
Don't just have a go on a Tuano (I didn't like it) but try a Superduke, Monster (the hot one), Yam FZ1, Kawa Z1000 etc - I'll bet you'll smile.

ps-have been given a 640 supermoto as a loan/demo bike - this is horrendous fun in short doses, wouldn't like to go too far on it (still have a 60mile trip to return it to my dealer though!!)

[QUOTE=Pudders69]Erm they are both sports bikes ain't they:wonder: the prilla is basically an RSV with less fairing and straght bars.

They are both the same bikes how do you figure that out. Ones a stretch to e bars with head down and arse up and the other is a sit up bike that just happens to go like hell.

[QUOTE=Pudders69]Erm they are both sports bikes ain't they:wonder: the prilla is basically an RSV with less fairing and straght bars.

They are both the same bikes how do you figure that out. Ones a stretch to e bars with head down and arse up and the other is a sit up bike that just happens to go like hell.

where to start...

Same engine
Same Suspension
Same Brakes
Same frame

The rsv was basically a donor bike and the T is basically a sports bike with flat bars, always has been...hasn't it?

[QUOTE=theboy]

where to start...

Same engine
Same Suspension
Same Brakes
Same frame

The rsv was basically a donor bike and the T is basically a sports bike with flat bars, always has been...hasn't it?

Very valid point as of the 'nakeds' the Tuono seems to share the most parts to it's sportsbike brother but it's the principle of the bike/whole riding experience that makes the bike a totally different animal. Mille will feel the similar to the GSXR but with different power delivery (ie sportsbike), a Tuono will feel like a supermoto on steroids !!!

Trying to word this diplomatically as what pudders is saying is basically right on paper/from a technical point of view, but if you rode them back to back, not only will the bikes character differ so will your's.

Does this make sense???

Keep the Gixer

im with Graham22....... try a superduke.........

thanks for the comments its all good info .

one thing on the gixer im not happy with is the rate in which it turns into corners feels to slow for me anyway compared to my commuting bike the steering is like vauge to say the least and feels stiff , all checked out and every thing is working as it should be might try raising the back end up see if that helps the turn in , this is the main reason i dont like the bike the power is good probly to good like some one says earlier your doing 140 in a flash with little to no effort this is only 3 gears after all .

as for the super duke id have one tomorrow but the quality is very suspect mate of mine has a shop and he has done quite a few engine rebuilds mainly cranks failing , so the next bike i get has to be reliable , maybe there ok now i dont know i do 14 thousand a year so it needs to be up to the job .

ok guys cheers for the input keep it coming .:thumb:

Growler, I have the suspension setup at home for my old Gixxer - transformed the bike.

I'll try to dig it out and post it tonight... How big are you (height/weight), by the way?

SB

thanks for the comments its all good info .

one thing on the gixer im not happy with is the rate in which it turns into corners feels to slow for me anyway compared to my commuting bike the steering is like vauge to say the least and feels stiff , .

as for the super duke id have one tomorrow but the quality is very suspect mate of mine has a shop and he has done quite a few engine rebuilds mainly cranks failing , so the next bike i get has to be reliable , maybe there ok now i dont know i do 14 thousand a year so it needs to be up to the job .

ok guys cheers for the input keep it coming .:thumb:

GSX-R do feel like they steer slow at low speeds, probably to do with the factory fitted steering damer plus the quickness of steering of your cummuter bike - I always felt this when swapping from XR400 to GSXR1000. The trade off is stability at speed & less slappiness in bumpy bends - going from a 16" wheel blade to the GSXR exagerated this point but & grew used to it. Only now going to the Superduke do I not notice to vagueness - again as the bikes are like chalk & cheese to ride theres alot of things you do & don't notice.

As for Superduke reliability, yes theres a few common teething issues - mainly starter motor related but there is now a factory fix (mine done yesterday) I've looked on several websites & can't see a common crank issue - your mate must be talking about older Dukes as KTM are keen to rectify any problems - I also had an unsightly weld on my oil tank, this was replaced without quibble.

The reason I went for the KTM over the Tuono was mainly build quality, I do alot of road trials & are seeing more & more KTMs and over the last few years, the fit and finish has improved drastically.

The only thing I miss about the GSXR is not being able to sit at 130-140 but then again thats the reason I bought the KTM, this is more than made up by it's overtaking ability, visibility & nimbleness at all speeds (it's not slow to turn in at low speeds).

I tested the Tuono, Z1000, Fazer thou (previous model of course) and Ducati S4R a couple of years back.

Personally I hated the Tuono - just felt too big - and the power delivery I thought was horrendous.

Ducati was great but I didnt think it would last commuting - new one has the even better engine so I am looking at it again now.

Z1000 - fast, nimble and was the most fun, but I found the seat really uncomfortable.

So I bought a Fazer - it was fast, comfy and handled well enough (for my limited abilities anyway).
Now I have a Triumph Rocket but thinking of replacing with the new Monster S4R in Spring time.

[QUOTE=GROWLER_GRRRR]
one thing on the gixer im not happy with is the rate in which it turns into corners feels to slow for me anyway compared to my commuting bike the steering is like vauge to say the least and feels stiff , all checked out and every thing is working as it should be might try raising the back end up see if that helps the turn in , this is the main reason i dont like the bike the power is good probly to good like some one says earlier your doing 140 in a flash with little to no effort this is only 3 gears after all .

QUOTE]

Been wondering about this statement for a bit and 2 options came to mind.

1.check tyre pressures, get suspension set up for you (mine cost £35)
2. read up on "Active countersteering"

I know a smaller, commuter bike will do u turns on a penny but the gix should be perfectly fine aswell, so as SBradley said suspension is a reasonable start.

Not meaning to teach you to suck eggs here, but we all countersteer to get round a corner, but active "concious" countersteering really makes a difference i.e peg scraping at 5mph type difference.

Its your money so do what you want but it isn't a bad thing to improve your ability instead or aswell as buying a different bike to deal with the problem.

If you still luv the gix, how about bar raisers for comfort and low speed control...possibley a good compromise...beats spending £££££...but i am a Yorkshireman after all, ahhahhhaa:lol1:

QUOTE]

Been wondering about this statement for a bit and 2 options came to mind.

1.check tyre pressures, get suspension set up for you (mine cost £35)
2. read up on "Active countersteering"

I know a smaller, commuterbe perfectly fine aswell, so as SBradley said suspension is a reasonable start.

just to let you know where im at in the skill matrix iv already passed iam test (i know its got no baring on this ) but just so as you know im into training
iv done loades of track days
knee down no problem
level 3 california superbike school

as for the counter steering this is where all the problems have stemed from as iv gained in confidence think im wanting more frome the bike ie the turn in speed .

the fact im 280 pound and fit by the way (steady on you hecklers )
might be killing the suspension like you say the suspension on the gixer is well know for being to hard with little to no sag even on minimum preload .

im hoping i can get the bike set up cos its a fast piece of kit .

ow one more thing iv dropped the forks in the yokes 10mm didnt feel any different but hey this is where im at .

lapped knockhill on a cbr 600fm in 62 seconds im sure id beat that now probly on the cb500 (9min 50 at the nurburg on the cb)

hope this helps you make head or tail of my situation .

commuting 12thousand mile a year as well rain or shine .

cheers gents keep the comments coming its got to help im sure of it .:thumb:

I think 10mm is too much to drop the forks. I can't find the settings right now, but I'm almost certain mine were dropped 7mm to maintain clearance from the radiator under heavy breaking. Light (5 weight) fork oil with 120mm air gap and standard (as per the book) damping settings. Oh, I stripped the forks and cleaned them out - the shims tend to all get stuck together with crud and the damping stops working.

Rear I changed the spring for a Tech2000, regassed the shock and ran standard settings.

I adjusted the steering damper by removing it and dropping it in a skip. Probably the most noticeable difference, and in the best part of 200 hard laps of the Nurburgring afterwards it never shook its head once. Well, apart from going up Kesselchen but even my Scoob shook its head going up there fast...

I'll check the numbers but I think they're right.

Tyre pressures were 36 front, 42 rear on Pirelli Diablos or Michelin Pilot Sport (Pilot Race now), standard sizes.

That's on a GSX-R 750 Y or K0 if you prefer and will apply to any GSX-R 750 up to and including a K3. Use at your own risk, as usual ;)

SB

thanks for the info !

but im not taking the steering damper off as iv tried this and it shook lile elvis on a number of occasions .
might try putting the forks back to standard see whats what .

cheers .:thumb:

steering dampers will only mask problems not cure them.... if the suspension is set up for yourself correctly then maybe it might be redundant ....... i think thats what sbradley is refering to,he sorted his out and found the damper wasnt needed,so might be worthwhile having it done?

oi growls.... get a storm ! :norty: :D

no seriously tho... I know a guy who is a VTR guru... he's set my storm up for me and it's made a hell of a difference.. but I do have a Penske racing shock on mine and hyper pro springs in the forks... tho he's not a big fan of these springs as they are too long.
I'm sure there are guys about who do this sort of thing for the suzuki's too.. maybe even Roger@ Revolution Racing in Lancaster will look at it for you.
Have you thought about putting an aftermarket shock on? stiffen things up a bit more. Not sure what the standard shocks are like on the Suzukis?

If you want the number for the guy I mentioned, let me know and I'll get Pete to text it ya !:thumb:

Damn it forgot about this...your head races/bearing thingies are they tip top?

Go and test ride the Tuono, you may not like the power delivery at first, but I prefer the big torque twins over the screaming 4's after riding both, each to their own I suppose

:thumb:

ahhhh a man after my own heart!:luvlove: :D

not vtr for me there for pussys ha ha !

iv checked the head race bearings and they were deemed to be in good condition im sure ill get to the bottom this like i say the bike is good but its not doing what i want,:luxhello: almost there

:lol: yeah i've got one of them too !!!!:hjtwofing

hi growler, i hope youre still looking at this thread, not that i'm pretending to be the wizard of oz or something but i no a little about a little if you know what i mean.

firstly, some salient points...

i've been in and around the bike trade for many years, i own and ride a 1000 k3, which may make me biased but having owned just about every gixer model going since the bad ole days of the gsxr100L, i can vouch very validly their good and bad points from a lived with perspective. i also worked within an official aprilia franchised chain for 3 and a half years so i know what thats like from both sides of the counter. i own and many other things including motocross, supermoto, and even a 78 rd200 for the old school buzz, but i'm not boasting about toys, cos all you guys have probably got much better scoobies than i have and thats what were here for aint it?

so, firstly, don't junk the steering damper, you'll really miss it when you want it which is quite often with any large capacity sports bike, powering out of bends with the front going light and finding some bumps is no fun at all when instead of aiming for the next r1 your flapping towards the hedgerow! if anything, and if you really think the stock damper is to blame for low speed tip in complaint, get an aftermarket adjustable one, i would strongly recommend a Sprint Engineering damper, from here in nottingham, ask for johnno and do a cash deal!

secondly, with an annual mileage of 14000, what are the tyres of your choice i wonder? a sports bike such as the gixxer and similar have steering geometry extremely sensitive to tyre choice, and no two tyre models regardless of having the same profiles and size will feel the same at any speed, so what do you use currently?

i notice someone else mentions tyre pressures, good idea, and their suggestion of pressures would be the expected norm, i.e 36 / 42, however, if you ride through the year, are more likely to come across rain and poor weather, and particularly as the tread shallows and the tyrs squares, run a couple of pound more. this helps push the centre where the reinforcing is least, outward, and so helping to kepp the original profile and shape as when they were new and also keeps the tread pressure greater for water disperal as the tread wears. similarly, if you prefer true grip and soft sticky sports tyres, you can drop a few pounds but only when going for a thrash, as this will build heat in the tyre quicker and retain it longer, just remember to adjust according to what youre going to do next.

suspension settings, heres a good one...
aftermarket items do work better, but only if they are custom built to suit your honest weight and riding capabilties, and i mean honest! just byuying an expensive shock and twiddling the screws will do nothing but wreck an otherwise perfectly adequate bike. if you buy something, buy from someone maxton, speak to ron williams i think it is there, and he will build a shock to suit you, the bike, and your specific requirements, but be warned, as someone who does your mileage, you must ride in just about all the varied states and conditions possible, and by fitting this sort of thing will only focus and improve your bike in one very specific area, and the rest will only get worse. this is because basicly, the stock suspension, on a suzuki especially is already very good quality, there is nothing wrong with kayaba, showas, etc etc just because they are jap and come as standard, white power, ohlins and the like are fab, but far more focused on one area only. i would strongly suggest, as far as suspension goes, is put evrything on stock settings, these were generally a good compromise for a capable rider weighing no more than around 12 stone, they are jap don't forget, so us here in pint n pie land tend to always want to stiffen up! i'm no exception, i'm 6 foot, 48inch chest, and weighed 18stone without leathers and helmet when i bought my k3 new, and think i can ride quite hard, all i have found i needed to do was a single click up on everything that will click, and wind the preloaders in just one ring on the front forks to stop some of the weight transfer bottoming under extreme braking. job done, but do things in steps, one click at a time or you'll never know which adjustment made the difference, and if your suspension is in fine fettle thats all youll need to do, i'm sure of it. kicking the arse end in the air and the forks through the yolks is an extreme measure to a minor problem, but only in my opinion, i'm not here to preach.

so, i'd go back to basics, cos theres nothing wrong with the steering geometry, damper, and suspension of the gixxer, if all working fine and in good condition, suitably set up, it should be hunky dory.

has the bike always felt this way or more recently?

now, as for the final argument, will a gixxer lose your licence any faster than somehing else, the answer, no no no no no.

lets face it, we all try to get away with what we can whenever we can. if i ride my supermoto on the streets, which i often do, i don't ride at 100+ everywhere, but its sideways or vertical at 40 instead, both will get me banned or killed just as easy. if you bought something more sit up the added advantage of better visibility, wider bars giving lighter slow speed steering, the temptation to go hacking through the cars at every island que, wheelie away from it giving the bus driver the bird, is a far faster route to points and ban than doing 120 on a quiet country stretch of your favourite tarmac that you know better than the back of your manhood, simply because of the way police target their endorsement and fine opportunities. you must even feel this on your cb500. at least if you get a chase on with the fed and your on your gixxer you can clear off!

as for the aprilia, well, any stable mate of the rsv is fantastic, honestly they are, but not for everyone. they can suffer from a tediously heavy clutch, horrible in traffic and towns, and the first two gear ratios aren't very town friendly either at times which along with the clutch, and the obviousness of now having a twin not a four, can make life hard work at times when slow. you may well find the slow speed turn in easier than on an out an out spots bike such as the gixxer, but what about at the other end of the scale, where the lack of fantastic plastic make 80+mph for any period of time a real ball ache and leave you with a bigger neck than mike tysons pit bull!

i loved the rsv, i've spent a lot of time on them since there original launch, and nearly bought one, but only nearly, and one thing that stopped me was knowing more about aprilia themselves. as bike designers, builders, etc etc fine, in fact very good, almost jap reliability mechaincally, not electrically, but as businessmen, typical italian, very temperamental, more emphasis on the mental! in and out of bed with financial backers to bail them out of yet another near bankrupcy, year after year another company owner, now piaggio i believe, and very lacking in support in this country, not because your local dealer is lacking anything i'm sure, but the italian end and the uk importers end is at times shockingly limited in resources and answers just when you need them, and in typical italian fashion the factory even still closes for the whole of august, i have had a que of customers bikes before in the workshop waiting for a basic spare part for the whole of august and september thanks to their antiquated ways and lack of resources in the uk.

as for some of the other suggestions, superduke, vtr, etc etc you'll have to try them first but try them for at least an afternoon, the superduke and similar i mean, as i like you wouldn't entertain a vtr after a gixxer and it doesn't solve your problem either of being a focused sports bike when it comes to slow speed turn in, i dont see the point in going backwards!

so, after that essay, what tyres did you say you use?

cheers, shrew

ok here goes ...
1 14k milage is mostly commuting probly 9 thousand on the cb500 commuting and the gixer is 5 k ( i quoted this mainly for my expirience alone).

as for the slow turn in its doing it all the way up to max.
i want the bike to turn quickly using the counter steering drills iv learned recently at the css school , works a treat on the cb500 iv got no pegs left and the exhaust is rather thin on the side ha ha .

as for the suspension not sure your right on this one as there isent enough sag on the gixer even with the preloade all the way off (out ) .

what i need to know is are these bikes slow steering or quick or maybe get the whole thing checked again .

as for the tyres i use bridgestone 014 s good tyre wear but iv had some wheel spin out of corners >
im changing the tyres to super corsers pros so hopefully they will improve the turn in rate .

thanks for the comments keep them comming im definately going to get to the bottom of this problem , NO SURRENDER .

As for the out running of the law dont underestimate the cb500 that bike can
go at some mad rate through corners iv shocked many of sports bike owners
muhahha ! counter steer i love it .:thumb:

can't fault yer so far

i think you'll definitely feel an improvement going from the bridgetones to i assume pirelli super corsa's, the bridge's are a very neutral shape in comparison to more radical sports tyre, the pirelli included, but there are more agressive shapes yet...

neutral shape is good for all round use, very stable, but inherently slower to turn than basiclly a pointier tyre, as i'm sure you already know reading of your experiences.

if you ever get the chance, try a real race tyre or intermediate some time, i used to run dunlop dr 364's, not a recommended fitment you understand but not many gsxr1100l's will go underneath a well ridden blade and carry ten mph more mid corner without some sort of miracle!!!

whatever you think of your suspension, my point is really that i would save your money and concentrate on proper set up of what you've got rather than trying to buy a fix outta box, but it is such an art, and so many opinions on the very same bike and kit its easy to get frustrated. a bit like me and scoobies really!

i really would speak to someone such as maxton, and consider spending your money in that direction once youve got fresh rubber on of course.

i'd certainly keep and persist with the gixxer, but then as you probably suspect, i am biased, but for good reason as you already know, theyre chuffing great!

let me know how you get on, good luck, and i hope ive helped rather than hindered...

cheers, shrew

slighty going back to the whole "turn in" rate conversation.

Where does the gix hold it CoG, i believe that the higher CoG the faster the intial turn in will be i.e. its top heavy like my m8's zx10, but i think that suzuki used the lower CoG to improve stability.


The cb500 will prolly not have had that kinda consideration and is possibly more top heavy (proportionetly speaking) than't gix, thus easy, fast turn in.

Just a thought...blame Keith Code for that one.:notworthy