Even less light than the last time i tog'd at this place and at 50mm 1/50s f/1.4 ISO1600 even with the AF assist light it was struggling. I was even getting back focus problems, which i never usually get.

There was another bloke there with a D100 and a 50 mil F/1.8 and he wasn't getting anything.

I'm going to have to upgrade to the D200 with a battery grip.

how would i set up an sb800 to bounce off a low ceiling? (singer wants 'hot chicks in the audience' shots too lol)
As in mode, timings, etc (assuming it's on a D200)?

My mate has a D70 and I'd have to disagree - see his results here (http://liverockmusicphotography.fotopic.net/)

Feel free to email him - or I can get him to come on here if you like?

I beg to differ. the images from your mate's site show there's loads of light there.

this is from the last gig i did there
http://www.z3romass.com/gallery/gig_the_orator/i/DSC_6135.jpg

that night there were 3 red and 1 green light. dancing strobes in the audience.

Last night there were only 2 red lights and 1 green :(

I haven't PP'd last night's shots, so can't put one up.

anyway, i know that the D200 won't handle the light much better, but it'll be alot better with the saturated reds, etc.

You've looked through all his pics already? ;)

I suppose suggesting he sorts out better lighting isn't a possibility?

i've insisted on one more light for next time.

i didn't look through all of them, but 30 odd was a fair representation in my mind ;)

Nazareth! wow, haven't heard them in decades! they did "on a storytellers night" didn't they?

I have a D70 and D200 and don't think you'd gain anything either but upgrading to the 200 not for light gathering anyway.

how would i set up an sb800 to bounce off a low ceiling? (singer wants 'hot chicks in the audience' shots too lol)
As in mode, timings, etc (assuming it's on a D200)?

Personally I'd use AA rather than iTTL, and have both my SB800's off camera on stands and use the D70/D200 as Master.

Dave

I would use TTL and bounce the gun off the white card on the SB800 or buy something like a Lumiquest or a flash extender to help throw the light out a bit further. You are right to insist on more light especially if the band want to get decent shots!

Edited: I wouldn't be looking to upgrade the camera as the camera isn't the problem -- the quality of the lighting is.

Chefdude, your not wrong in 1 respect, but in another you are.

For the light levels we both shoot in The D70, ain't great yet the D200 ain't much better (but it does improve slightly).


And the red thing really did pee me off, that and a couple of other little things made me upgrade.

Simple solution.....shoot film. Kodak Tri X, Push it to 3200 iso and develop in Ilford Microphen. Nice and grainy proper photography! None of this plastic digital rubbish. :nono: :nono:

Nazareth! wow, haven't heard them in decades! they did "on a storytellers night" didn't they?

MAGNUM did On a Storytellers Night - one of my favourite albums :D

Simple solution.....shoot film. Kodak Tri X, Push it to 3200 iso and develop in Ilford Microphen. Nice and grainy proper photography! None of this plastic digital rubbish. :nono: :nono:

Now you're talking - Fuji Neopan 1600 at 3200iso in Microphen for me, all the speed, without the grain. I'll have to dig the EOS 1V out of the boot of the car and pray I've not left batteries in the pack from the last time I used it ( about 3 years ago !!! :D )

G

ISO setting / sensor sensitivity won't affect the camera focus - it's down to how much light is getting into the lens, and how much light the A/F system needs. Granted the D200 has a different / better a/f system, but I doubt it'll make much difference to the focus accuracy in low light.

And even the film cameras will have the same problem with focus. Sounds like the only solution might be flicking the switch and twirling the lens! Very old Skool!

For bounce flash - use a dedicated flash (I'm quite pleased with my SB600), point it up, and pop away; if the ceiling is high, use a white card - the sb600 doesn't have one built in, but a business card and elastic band works well.

I use i-ttl and just twirl the flash exposure comp knob to get the results I want. Off camera remote rocks, but I suspect the communication via preflashes thing might not work too well in an environment with much other flashing lighting. It also takes perhaps 1/2 sec to a sec to finish having a chat with the remote flash, then take the picture.

The flash also adds a (theoretically, not tried) better af-assist module. Depends on if you want flash, or available light pics.

Okay, here are 2 shots from that night. Audience ;) shot with a retarded flash and a singer shot iso 1600, f/1.4, 1/50s. I upped the contrast and beefed up the blues, but still...

http://www.z3romass.com/usr/Dsc_6653_600.jpg

http://www.z3romass.com/usr/DSC_6825_600.jpg
http://www.z3romass.com/usr/Dsc_6825_600.jpghttp://www.z3romass.com/usr/Dsc_6825_600.jpg

Just did my first paying gig.

The D70s really can't hack the speed of a big gig.

Just did my first paying gig.

The D70s really can't hack the speed of a big gig.

With all due respect Simon that's bull****. How on earth did photographers manage to shoot gigs for dozens of years without all the whizz bang gadgetry (autofocus, iTTL, et al) that we have available to us now??? Personally speaking my old manual cameras did the job very well indeed and they haven't got a patch on cameras like the D70s and others that we have now. A bad workman always blames his tools. Rant over.

Alwyn, I wasn't joking I missed shots cos the D70s wasn't quick enough at saving the files (locked up). I did infact break out the old Canon AT1 for a gig not so long ago and that in comparison was quicker. Its as quick as I can advance the film, when compaired to the D70s massive buffer of 4 shots.

Strange I never had the same problem with the D200.

Strange I never had the same problem with the D200.

Doesnt the 200 compromise speed for quality though? (hs version?)
Got a mate with a D70 (another one has a D50) http://www.daz5008.co.uk/
Mostly out door so no light quality issue, he did have issues with the NEC though and their "orange" lighting (some nice pics on there ;))

Tony:)

Think your confusing the D200 with the D2hs (4mp high speed cam designed for sports).

Alwyn, I wasn't joking I missed shots cos the D70s wasn't quick enough at saving the files (locked up). I did infact break out the old Canon AT1 for a gig not so long ago and that in comparison was quicker. Its as quick as I can advance the film, when compaired to the D70s massive buffer of 4 shots.

Strange I never had the same problem with the D200.

Bet the AT-1 slowed you down abit after 36 shots though ;)

With all due respect Simon that's bull****. How on earth did photographers manage to shoot gigs for dozens of years without all the whizz bang gadgetry (autofocus, iTTL, et al) that we have available to us now??? Personally speaking my old manual cameras did the job very well indeed and they haven't got a patch on cameras like the D70s and others that we have now. A bad workman always blames his tools. Rant over.

Easy answer.

Fast film and MANUAL focus.

And I would disagree with the comment that older manual cameras are not a a patch on something like a D70.

The limitations of the sensors, af and processing ability of the lower end DLR's are clear to see in adverse shooting conditions.

Unless you are looking at pro spec DSLR's, a manual focus camera with a large, bright viewfinder and good focusing screen and decent fast lens and film will give better results than most "affordable" DSLR's in those conditions.