Yesterday i was fortunate to get a lift from a friend on his Bike, so i could go and collect a car.
as we came down the A13 (heavy traffic getting dark), I was shocked to see how many people DONT NOTICE BIKE& RIDERS, people changing lane @ the last minute NO INDICATORS, :eek:

As a car driver i thought i was quite awear of MOTORBIKE RIDERS, moving over using indicators to let them know, etc..
Maybe im one of the minority????

other than that i fully enjoyed the ride, Power, pull away, feeling your going faster than you are, Makes me want a bike (but the wife wont let me :( never has :()

Sorry to bore so many of you, But i just wanted to point this out, from a NON- MOTORBIKER.

Baz
Silver Classic, Blue Graphics

as a non-biker though wanna be biker, i know what you mean...

but on the other hand, bikers shouldnt be filtering through the traffic anyway so not 'really' the motorists fault. obviously they should be aware of the surroundings but its not always easy to spot a bike screaming down the middle of 2 lanes...

if/when i get a bike i have no doubt that i'll filter aswell, but i'd do it knowing theres a big risk, and that it'd be my fault (in the eyes of the law) if something went wrong..

but on the other hand, bikers shouldnt be filtering through the traffic anyway so not 'really' the motorists fault.

That depends doesn't it? Speed of traffic/bike etc... some filtering is legal.

Legal or not, you don't want to be in that sandwich. I do a London commute but wouldn't fancy a longer one in faster moving traffic tbh... either me or someone else is going to make a mistake sooner or later, the way I see it.

but on the other hand, bikers shouldnt be filtering through the traffic anyway so not 'really' the motorists fault.


So that's a) why I have followed Police bikes doing it when I've been on my bike, and b) seen them doing it when I've been in the car.....

a bit long winded but worth a read nevertheless

When a motorcyclist is involved in a filtering accident, most insurance companies will try and use the case law of Powell v Moody which dates back to 1966 to mitigate their losses. In that case a motorcyclist was overtaking a line of stationary traffic and was found to be 80% to blame when he hit a car which was “inching out” into the carriageway after a milk tanker signalled to him to pull out. The court felt that the motorcyclist was undertaking an “operation” which is fraught with great hazard and which needed to be carried out with great care.

In the case of Clarke v Whinchurch in 1969, an overtaking motorcyclist (Moped) in similar circumstances was found to be 100% to blame. The judge ruled that he (the motorcyclist) should have realised something was happening up ahead when a bus in a line of slow moving traffic stopped to let a vehicle out from a side road on his left. The car came out quite slowly in front of the bus and was hit by the moped. (f you are ever involved in a filtering accident, you probably won’t want to quote this case to the other side).

In more recent cases (Leeson v Bevis Transport 1972) the motorcycle and emerging vehicle were found equally responsible. The court said that the motorcyclist did nothing wrong in overtaking the line of stationary vehicles, but needed to keep an effective lookout, whilst the van driver should have been aware of the possibility of vehicles overtaking in this way.

The most recent case of this kind was in 1980 in the case of Worsford v Howe. In this instance the motorcyclist was in a separate lane intended for vehicles turning right, when he was hit by a car which was intending to cross both lanes of traffic and turn right. The court found once again that both rider and driver were equally to blame and settled 50/50.

In filtering cases, the court will when deciding who is to blame will look at:

1 The speed and position of the motorcycle in the road.
2 Whether the stream of traffic was stationary or moving.
3 How fast the other vehicle emerged from the side road or from the line of traffic.

Filtering is an accepted and legitimate practice, and unless there is a case of dangerous or careless driving to answer, or one of the 4 conditions mentioned previously have been breached, then it is very rare that a Police prosecution will follow, but in terms of a civil action, then this is where the real headache can begin.

As it stands at the moment, although some of the most recent cases have found both parties equally responsible, and in some cases they courts have found 100% in favour of the motorcyclist, you have to bear in mind that you could still end up bearing 80% or even 100% of the blame, simply because as the case law stands at the moment, you will probably not recover your damages in full.

So to sum up, filtering in most cases is perfectly legal, is accepted as being a benefit of riding a motorcycle and is something that just about every rider has done at some stage without any problems, but, should you be unfortunate to have a collision whilst filtering, then just be aware of the pitfalls you are likely to encounter until such time as current case law is updated.


so in short filtering, in itself, is fine. and i'm sure any biker would say that biking has improved his/her driving standards when i a car as well.

Baz, I would say that you have just become aware due to been on the back a bike (which does leave you feeling more vunurable) than when encased in your metal shell with air bags etc, that the genral standard of driving - lack of observation displayed by the majoroty of motorist is pretty pathetic, ie little or no indication, random lane changes, late no look lunges at junctions etc.
Richard (not a bike rider but have done the pillion bit)

Filtering is not illegal.

The rules are as follows, you should not filter passed cars doing more then 20mph and you should not be excedding there speed by more then 20mph

I used to commute into the City every day through the Blackwall Tunnel. The stunts pulled by bikers (myself included) got pretty dodgy but I was lucky not to witness any serious accidents.

Who cares what the legal position is? Assume that you will die/suffer serious injury if you have an accident and ride accordingly. There's nothing to gain from lying in the middle of the road, knowing that the guy in the BMW was at fault. Who gives a feck if the court decides in your favour. Learn to get out of the way and notice the kcufwits and what they are about to do. The road is littered with them and they get really stupid in traffic jams - even good drivers do daft things in these situations.
Learn the signs: who's looking in their mirrors; every gap that opens will be filled with a kcufwit in a bm/merc/volvo/transit(insert personal prejudice here;)), don't sit between cars, don't linger in blind spots and if you filter to the front of a queue, get ready to move DON'T sit there admiring your navel while the lights change:).

By the time I stopped commuting to the City, I was horrified by the way I was riding on a daily basis (supermotos do that to you :o!!). The actions of tired impatient car drivers may not be reasonable but you'd be an idiot not to be prepared for them.

I'm a non-bike rider, but having a sister who used to be a biker, who was very badly injured in an bike accident a couple of years back, and having seen the horrific sight of a biker being hit, I like to think I am extremely aware of people on bikes.

Even when sat in a stationary line of traffic, I keep an eye on my mirror for bikers, and if I see one coming I move further in so as to give the biker more room to pass.

I have seen some really stupid manouvres from both bikers and car drivers - which if evasive action had'nt been taken, nasty accidents would have occured. Everyone has their faults, whether on a bike or cocooned in a car - obviously the biker would come off worst in an accident not having the safety buuble, but I think both parties need to be more aware of each other.

:)

Car owners DONT understand

So me owning a few cars and a few bikes makes me only capeable of understanding half of it??? :wonder:;):D

Some bikers don't help themselves though (and granted, some do). Even though they seem to understand they can be easily missed due to blind spots and narrow width, poor observation etc. Some just ride around with a chip on their shoulder and giving abuse to anyone who accidentally doesn't see them as they dart in and out of traffic and filter past crawlingtaffic at 20+mph faster than the traffic speed :rolleyes:

Me, I only filter 10mph MAX faster than the speed of traffic I'm going past, I stick in my lane and I don't cut in between cars and brake. Many bike don't do what I do, which TBH doesn't bother me, just as long as they look at their own riding before blaming the car driver. Afterall, a biker is the more vunerable road user and thus should take much more care regardless of whos at fault and be more aware of the dangerous scienarios they put themselves into.

If you dont filter in traffic .......no point in riding a bike :)
(especially in London )......just my thoughts after years on commuting in london :)

I had a bike filtering accident last summer and got paid out in full, in other words I was found to be *not* at fault.
It all depends on the circumstances to be honest, in my case I was filtering along at 15mph going past a queue of stationary traffic when a bloke does a U turn in fromt of me. A clear cut case in my opinion. But if I were filtering in and out of fast moving traffic and got knocked off then I would happily accept a 50/50 liabilty as the monetary side of things would be the least of my worries.

Even when sat in a stationary line of traffic, I keep an eye on my mirror for bikers, and if I see one coming I move further in so as to give the biker more room to pass.

See this is an arguement I have with my dad, he is a biker and does the same in his car, but my point is.

If you are conscious enough to look out for bikers and move for them. Why not just leave a gap in the first place. When I am stopped in traffic I will always make a huge gap for a biker as default even if there isnt one there.

Hope that makes sense, not having a dig as its nice to have people which notice us.

It does make me laugh when I see car drivers violently swinging there car out the way to let me go past even though there was plenty of room for me to get through anyway.
I always stick my foot out as a sign of appreciation.

I had a bike filtering accident last summer and got paid out in full, in other words I was found to be *not* at fault.
It all depends on the circumstances to be honest, in my case I was filtering along at 15mph going past a queue of stationary traffic when a bloke does a U turn in fromt of me. A clear cut case in my opinion. But if I were filtering in and out of fast moving traffic and got knocked off then I would happily accept a 50/50 liabilty as the monetary side of things would be the least of my worries.


Dito.

Not a bike rider and understand the principle of "filtering" in conjested traffic.

But surely filtering in fast moving traffic is firstly very dangerous and secondly undertaking.

It does make me laugh when I see car drivers violently swinging there car out the way to let me go past even though there was plenty of room for me to get through anyway.
I always stick my foot out as a sign of appreciation.

What, right into their door for being a pillock? ;) :D

So me filtering on the M40 every day at 70mph whilst everybody else is nose to tail at about 60mph is not allowed ........ah well

Filtering is a game and I enjoy it, everyday so far I have won but I am sure some time I will lose - thats life. You cant not do something cause you are scared of something that might happen.

So me filtering on the M40 every day at 70mph whilst everybody else is nose to tail at about 60mph is not allowed ........ah well

Filtering is a game and I enjoy it, everyday so far I have won but I am sure some time I will lose - thats life. You cant not do something cause you are scared of something that might happen.

My biggest fear about fast motorway filtering is not getting knocked off, it's getting run over by the car behind as I'm tumbling to a standstill.
Frightens the life out of me...

mmm, seems like i was misinformed.

sounds like the filtering rules are very simular to undertaking rules for cars, ie you can whilst in slow moving traffic...

Filtering is not illegal.

The rules are as follows, you should not filter passed cars doing more then 20mph and you should not be excedding there speed by more then 20mph

If you dont filter in traffic .......no point in riding a bike :)
(especially in London )......just my thoughts after years on commuting in london :)

Totally agree with both of these. I ride into London from Kent everyday and there would be no gain if I did not filter. I also agree with Falmer1. Personally I think you'd be insain to filter at greater speeds. If someone pulled out (like they do and did last night), you'd stand less of a chance of reacting and being able to stop.

Guys

I drive a Scoob and own a bike so am not taking sides.

Riding a bike (I do London to Southend and back very day) is very different to driving in terms of your levels of awareness.

On a normal I filter, and when I'm filter I am constantly looking out literally looking into each cars mirrors to see the driver, have they seen me or not? and I mean literally every car. I know where all the pot holes are, the man hole covers are. I can almost tell what a car is going to do by the way it 'sits' on the road. I arrive at work wide awake.

On a normal dive to work, whilst I am still aware it isn't to the same degree as when I'm on a bike for some reason. Car radio's etc do distract you slightly.

It's hard to explain, but the experience is not so immediate when in a car. You don't see, hear. feel, sense things in a car like you do on a bike

See this is an arguement I have with my dad, he is a biker and does the same in his car, but my point is.

If you are conscious enough to look out for bikers and move for them. Why not just leave a gap in the first place. When I am stopped in traffic I will always make a huge gap for a biker as default even if there isnt one there.

Hope that makes sense, not having a dig as its nice to have people which notice us.

Erm, one point - if you are in a two lane traffic queue for example, you might have left enough space, but the stupid git who has come to a stop beside you in the next lane has'nt, you do the decent thing and move to make room for the biker:razz:


:D

On the Motorways of the UK, you often see bikers flicking between lanes at great speed, you also see car & van drivers doing the very same.

In my view regardless if the biker is doing wrong I always make room, you cannot jepordise someones safety who so vulnerable to serious injury. I don't agree with lane changing as whitnesed by some bikers, but hey I'm sure as hell not going to squeeze them out.

You allow room & the biker passes, 99.9% of the time the biker agnowledges your agnowledgment of his location, then carries on his way.

For me the better car drivers are ex bikers......

From a biker of 25yrs, & A driver of 20yrs

PNB

Filtering is a game and I enjoy it, everyday so far I have won but I am sure some time I will lose - thats life. You cant not do something cause you are scared of something that might happen.

With an attitude like that, you shouldn't even be allowed rollerskates...

For me the better car drivers are ex bikers......

From a biker of 25yrs, & A driver of 20yrs

PNB

As former all weather 10000m a year all year round biker (had a bad smash 5 yrs ago, haven' owned a bike since but - will ride again in a few years), i would agree with nthat statement. Biker's as a rule read the road far further ahead than most normal drivers and are more preceptive, even if we do take the odd -usually - calculated risk. This tends to translate to our car driving also.

With an attitude like that, you shouldn't even be allowed rollerskates...

Aha... another of 'PSLewis' usernames :lol1:

Mick :D

Yesterday i was fortunate to get a lift from a friend on his Bike, so i could go and collect a car.
as we came down the A13 (heavy traffic getting dark), I was shocked to see how many people DONT NOTICE BIKE& RIDERS, people changing lane @ the last minute NO INDICATORS, :eek:

As a car driver i thought i was quite awear of MOTORBIKE RIDERS, moving over using indicators to let them know, etc..
Maybe im one of the minority????

other than that i fully enjoyed the ride, Power, pull away, feeling your going faster than you are, Makes me want a bike (but the wife wont let me :( never has :()

Sorry to bore so many of you, But i just wanted to point this out, from a NON- MOTORBIKER.

Baz
Silver Classic, Blue Graphics


this is what happend to be when some van driver cut across on me

http://photobucket.com/albums/d14/wozzaa/?action=view&current=Canonphotofile0001.jpg

Not a bike rider and understand the principle of "filtering" in conjested traffic.

But surely filtering in fast moving traffic is firstly very dangerous and secondly undertaking.

That half the fun :)
same as racing couriers in london traffic :)...made the rat race just bareable

this is what happend to be when some van driver cut across on me

http://photobucket.com/albums/d14/wozzaa/?action=view&current=Canonphotofile0001.jpg[/URL]

I hope you were wearing more than what you (and the child) were wearing in this picture :eek:
[url]http://photobucket.com/albums/d14/wozzaa/?action=view&current=100_0216.jpg (http://photobucket.com/albums/d14/wozzaa/?action=view¤t=Canonphotofile0001.jpg)