I never saw much of the Group b machinery, as Ive been hooked on rallying since 97. Ive watched the Metro's on the National rounds!! Were the Metro's much faster in thier hey day THAN NOW???

And would a current Scooby outdo the powerfull Audi quatrro if they both raced on exactly the same stage??

These are the questions which I sometimes ask myself as Ive heard the Group B's were like 500bhp!!

Thanks

WGR

The current Metro 6R4s as seen on National rallies are detuned from their original state to around 350bhp now. They also werent the fastest of the group B cars. I think modern WRCs might have less BHP but the torque they put out is probably greater than the Gp B cars. Also suspension, brakes, diffs and especially tyres have come a long way in 18 years and todays WRC should be quicker on most stages. I guess the only place they might not is somewhere like Finland where the extra power could mean better top speeds?

Paul..

The current Metro 6R4s as seen on National rallies are detuned from their original state to around 350bhp now. They also werent the fastest of the group B cars. I think modern WRCs might have less BHP but the torque they put out is probably greater than the Gp B cars. Also suspension, brakes, diffs and especially tyres have come a long way in 18 years and todays WRC should be quicker on most stages. I guess the only place they might not is somewhere like Finland where the extra power could mean better top speeds?

Paul..Thanks rallymarshall! By the way I have a photo of the new track which they have constructed at Epynt! Does anyone want to see as I took it on the Harry Flatter's Rally today??

Im sure you could start a new thread with it on

Paul..

Weren't the Group Bs running 500 bhp before they were banned? If so, I would reckon on some pretty amazing torque figures aswell - although still less than a modern WRC car. Modern WRC cars are built to a similar standard in terms of engine spec. They are essentially (or could be) 500 bhp engines.

Current regulations obviously prevent that. All WRC cars produce around 300bhp and roughly 400+ lbs ft torque. In effect they are detuned to around 300bhp - this probably helps a great deal with reliability, as it is rare to see a car stop because of engine failure (unless they've hit something big and heavy :) ).

Outright performance would goto the Group Bs, although it is hard to make direct comparisons as things have changed a great deal. Modern cars have superior chassis, brakes, lower centre of gravity etc. They would certainly handle considerably better than a Group B car. The Championship has also changed a great deal too - stages are a lot more twisty than they used to be - largely in an effort to keep down top speeds. So a modern WRC car would certainly be quicker over todays stages.

Group B cars were designed to do one thing - go bloody quick :) It was said that Audi produced a 1000 bhp engine for the Quattro, but it was never used in the WRC.

Chris

Chris,
I don't know whether GrB would have had an outright performance advantage. With the advances that weve had with transmission, tyres, chassis etc I think the WRC's of today would outdo the old Gr B cars. In fact stage times have been compared and WRC are considerably faster although a lot of factors could affect this.

I still think GrpB provided a better spectacle though.

Chip.

Agreed - as I said, on todays WRC stages, I would expect a modern WRC car to be quicker - for the reasons you've stated. However, put a modern WRC car up against a Grp B car on some of the 'old' stages - with much longer straights and I reckon the Grp Bs would have the edge - there's no substitute for power :)

If you go to Duke entertainment and buy the video - 'Too Fast to race', its the story of Group B.

Did you know the Porsche 959 and Ferrari 288 GTO were developed with group b in mind, also the 6R4's were built by williams and the RS200 by reliant.

Thanks for the info folks! :)

The 1000bhp Grp B Audi did run in the Pikes Peak event in the States It had something like a 8 inch turbo and ran at 2.8 bar of boost The last Evo of the Audi in 1985 ran 650hp and 600lbs/ft The 205 T16 of Ari Vatenan had 550bhp A good video to download is "Climbdance" It was made by Peugeot to show Vatenan climbing the Pikes Peak in a 700bhp 405 T16 1 hand on the wheel and the other shielding his eyes from the sun

Grant

Can you download these clips from the net? Links?

http://www.kika.ru/video/ClimbDance.mpg

Grant

STi-spec-a.

Hi.
You have private message regarding pikes peak video and Ari vatenan. Hope u can help us please.

Shropshire-Guy and Mr J bunce (Seat Driver) but won,t hold that against him. :lol:

If you "Right click Save as " the above link it will show you the Peugeot 405 T16 limbing Pikes Peak in the States at an awesome rate of knots

Cheers Grant