Never thought I'd be saying this, but I am shocked at the conversation I've just had with Graham. He was rather rude and point blank refused to carry out some modifying work I had planned on my car (new turbo, FPR, service etc) purely because I wouldn't get them to perform the subsequent ECU remapping.

What happened to your customer service, guys?

Why do you have such a problem with Bob Rawle :confused:

Simon

probably because if you fit a bigger turbo it will need remapping straight away and i'm sure TSL wouldn't be prepared to let a car go that isn't set up right for fueling etc.

I'm sorry, but that isn't the case. I have enough monitoring in my car (including ecutek deltadash) that I'm confident it would be safe with moderate/low boost. I push 20psi through my td04 at the moment (safely) and have been doing for approx 15000 miles.

I'm just suprised at the rudeness of the response I got from the head of a company that I once respected.

Simon

simon, of topic but how do i get hold of bob rawle?

sounds like you ned to go elsewhere and spend your hard earned mate!

jamo :D

www.brdevelopments.com

Jamo, that's exactly what I have done. Just means I'll be going to Roger Clarks for servicing etc now.

Simon

Just out of intrest mate, what turbo was you going for.
i'm running 22psi through a TD04 at the moment, but it's raising my charge temps a tad.
my next purchase will have to be a bigger turbo to lower the temps.

:)

Kevin

I've got a VF34 waiting to go on. It's off the jdm my02 STI Type RA Spec C. 1 bar boost from around 2800-3000rpm in 5th with appropriate boost control. Rated at around 350bhp with supporting mods. Same compressor as VF30, with P18 exhaust housing and roller bearings.

Running a VF34 at 270-280bhp (which is what I'm getting from my td04 running on the choke line) is going to be far more efficient, and safer than my current setup IMHO even without a remap. But I've then got the basis for more once I scrape some more pennies together, get FMIC, injectors, remap etc.

Call it a work in progress ;)

Simon

Simon

You rang and asked us to fit a list of components which YOU had sourced. Not normally a problem...

These included plugs, BIG turbo and FSE.

We then advised you that this combination would require mapping prior to departure to ensure safe futher progress.

You said that Richard was not good enough for this and that you wanted to take it to Bob Rawle.

It is of course your prerogative to choose whichever mapper you prefer, But please do not ask us to put our name to a potentially unsafe car running on components that we cannot vouch for. Something you seem to have forgotten to mention in your post.

I can only genuinely apologise if the manner in which the above was relayed to you was not perhaps as eloquent as it could be. But we would stand by our decision on this one.

Paul

So your going from a TD04 to a VF34 and dont expect to remap the car?
Perleeeese....... :rolleyes:
Richard is a well respected mapper, i believe he use to work for Motec, of course i could be wrong but if you expected your car to run correctly with said mods (and no it wouldnt have) then there you go, 10 mins later and one blown engine you would have been storming right back into TSL giving them hell, am i not correct?
Dont expect changing a half pint glass for a pint glass and have no difference ;)

Tony:D

He never said he didn't expect to map the car, just that it didn't need to be done on the same day. He could drive like a grandma and it should be safe enough with the correct monitoring.

I still agree with Paul that fitting the mods and then not remapping has serious consequences and they are well within their rights to turn down the work.

Stefan

Paul

I never called into question Richards mapping capabilities, I merely stated that I had been told that Bob was one of the best ecutek remappers for my model year car (something that I stand by, and I'm sure many Scoobynet members would agree to). To which I was then belittled by Graham for having that opinion. If the option of getting Richard to remap my car had been offered in a civilised manner, I would have considered it, but not at the time of fitting the other parts due to financial constraints. The reason I had asked to speak to Graham was so that I could discuss my requirements with someone whom I thought would give me straight, relatively unbiased advice.

What I got was that I would "vapourise" my engine, in a mocking tone of voice. Your company has done itself a great disservice in my opinion. Of course it is your perogative to decline any work, but initially when I started to talk to Graham he said you would do the work but take no responsibility for my engine if I blow it up. I agreed entirely, there is no way I would embark on this project without fully researching what I expected and was required. I have all the monitioring equipment necessary, including the facility to retard the ignition timing.

Then I mentioned Bob's name and it was like flicking a switch.

In the end I feel let down by a company who I thought were different, and actually cared for their loyal customers (i bought this car off Gavin when he worked at Beechdale if you remember).

Simon

Simon knows enough about his ECU and how it ticks to know how to handle driving a larger turbo until it is mapped, I daresay he could do a very good job of setting up a VF34 to run it on the standard ECU with the tools he has at his disposal. If you need any advice on this Simon drop me an email ;)

BTW I had a det free AE801 running over 290 BHP at PE with 21 PSI on a larger turbo/TMIC on a 215 BHP ECU without a remap in similar circumstances.

I recall Andy F got into the 11s on the 1/4 with a standard ECU.

Just needs a bit of thought and can work surprisingly well.

dr bob all the way m8ee:D

well richard gets my vote for mapping,i feel they are in the right as if your car blew up you would go right back to tsl and they are being quite honest about it.would you prefer them to fit not elloing you re possioble problems and BOOM
martin

So the question now stands at this:-
Why didnt you just take the car with the parts and add them at BRdevelopements?
:rolleyes:

Tony:D

Short answer is TSL is closer, and I have always had good service from them previously. You're all missing the point, I only wanted TSL to fit the parts. As John says above I have the necessary tools to run the VF34 safely on the car without a remap. What is so hard to understand about this? I am not advising the path I take to a novice modifier, but you can't assume I don't have either the knowledge or the ability to make this work.

End of story.

I'm not posting on this thread again. :)

So the question now stands at this:-
Why didnt you just take the car with the parts and add them at BRdevelopements?
:rolleyes:
Tony:D
Tony-The question only nows stands at that in your opinion because you made yourself look like a total prát in your first post for not reading the original post correctly!

He says' loud and clear that he wanted TSL to fit the bits and would run the car accordingly until he could get it mapped.

I understand TSL's concern but a short letter claiming no responsibility should it go bang the moment it is fired up would have sufficed.

They obviously don't want the work it's that simple.

Si- you say you aren't having it mapped immediately for financial reasons. Don't you think it would be in the cars best interest to went till you had the money for a re-map, therefore minimising the amount of time between the parts swap and map?

Tony

BRD don't have a workshop.
Bob will fit an ECU for you and do any necessary mapping, but I am sure he would not appreciate people crawling around on his drive fitting turbos etc.

:mad: tsl r60wrx enough sad eyyy

does bob come to your house to mapp if u pay him??

Errrr !! maybe some crossed wires somewhere ??

I have had stuff done by TSL and by Bob Rawle and have had nothing but top service from all. I think the problem lies in having mods done in one place and mapping in another. I had my TD05 / injectors / pump / reg / intercooler etc, done here in Carlisle and travelled down to Bob Rawle.

Andy Forrest who supplied the Turbu was quite "honest" in his e-mails that the trip to Swindon should be off boost and drive like a wus !! and quite right too !!

Perhaps this is what TSL were thinking about ??

Midlife.....

Tony: Just for your future knowledge, there is no problem going from a TD04 to a TD06 without a remap so I would think there is no problem going from a TD04 to a VF34 providing you knew what you were doing and I have every reason to believe Simon knows his onions. Obviously to optimise the change in turbo a remap is necessary.

Short answer is TSL is closer, :eek:


I wouldn't get them to perform the subsequent ECU remapping.
Why do you have such a problem with Bob Rawle :confused:

But you were going to get Bob Rawle to do the mapping anyway, why didn't you get him to do the rest of the work :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


I have been to TSL and I have never had a problem with them at all.
Keep up the good work TSL :D

I know what you mean Simon about Graham's attitude.It happened to 2 of us when we didnt want want something he is selling/trying to sell.

We went up there to get wheel allignment done and he got a strop on because my mate wouldnt put new tyres on the car which where borderline legal or buy his custom side vents.

When the guy who's car it was pointed out that he was a Policeman and agreed yes the tyres where on their way out but where by no means illegal,Graham stormed off and said he wouldnt take the car out for his usual customer test drive,my mate said ''great i wouldnt let you drive it anyway''.

I'm all for pushing your products and expressing your opinions onto customers but his attitude at the time made me and my mate never return to TSL.

Hi Si, hope you are still reading this thread and can understand not posting...

Drop me a mail if you still need parts fitted.

Rob

Rob@tweenierob.co.uk

When any car is aligned here we take tyre readings at three points across each tyre as even 1mm difference across the tread can affect the figures.

Naturally any tyre below the legal limit precludes the vehicle from being road tested. I don't believe we are alone in that outlook.

As we are not in the habit of telling customers they need to change their tyres when they don't it's a fairly simple rule of thumb as to whether a car is driven on the public roads by a member of staff or not.

We keep a record of all customers tyre readings each time they visit. It will be on your friends alignment sheet and invoice.

My other half cancelled an order with TSL and in reply got a very unhelpful rude response so i can relate to below average customer service.I can appreciate that in most cases the customer satisfaction is fantastic judging by members reponses to their service but on this occaision im glad i went elsewhere and regrettably wont be using TSL again.

just to add to scoobytc's comment when i first rung up and asked them about the product i wanted they didnt even have a clue what i was on about and tried to sell me something completely different ... all i can say is im glad on that occasion i was clued up with what i wanted.
anyway as he said wont be using them again and when i eventually get me a scoob i wont be either :(

This is the whole reason I now do what I do with my car..

I was fed up of the tuning companies that existing, refusing to do what I wanted as they knew best.. power engineering were the only people remapping apart from the link.. the only exhausts were the ones they manufactured..

**** that.. Started speaking with POC, got a few bits in group buys and it went downhill from there on..

DIY All the way.. will not pay anyone to do any work on my car now.. other than mapping, Ill quite happily do bits, but not cold start and all the stuff that requires patience..

Mark Shead P(MADevelopments) sold me my ecu.. he does mapping, didnt force mapping as a condition of the ecu sale..

Ill choose my own mapper, you should choose yours.. I can understand TSL's point about the parts.. but theres plenty of others that will fit the bits..

PS not a dig at tsl.. just dont need any tarty bits yet!!!

David

MY experience of TSL:

I used TSL to buy an AP clutch kit, only it wasnt the "KIT" i was sent but a mixture of parts, some not even part of an AP kit (i sent pics to AP to confirm). Unfortunately i only found this out after doing 20 miles of having the "kit" fitted. The car was undrivable, major judder, it wouldnt of lasted 5 mins!
After speaking to them they agreed to send another kit out and i kept the first kit they sent to compare it with the second, big difference!
Fair enough they sent a proper kit the second time round but it cost me to get it fitted a second time. They didnt want to know after that.
After numerous letters my solicitor phoned them and reported back that they were very rude and even put the phone down on her!? At this point it was costing me more money so i decided to cut my losses and learnt not to use them again!

Pretty poor!!