Along with the other thread from another cumbrian based person!!!
I am starting another....sorry if some points are repeated...

What do you reckon...

Someone in the forum organise a special group deal for people to go to a event abroad instead of spending their ridiculous money going to a poorly organised event ( I am talking about the usual problem speccys face, as detailed in this forum) the fundamental organisation is slowly improving....

Someone like... http://www.rallytravel.com/

I am sure you could go to a different event, say Catalunya/Corsica/Cyprus cheaper than GB.

Wales has the Rally for 4 years and an option for 7....Do you want another 7 years of bad parking in Welsh only forests with sometimes facist rules on spectating??

I am a little worried that people are becoming used to the poor quality and beginning to accept it..

Can we force the hand of the MSA to plan a decent national event?

I am sure they would have to do something if no one turned up....
The teams will still want to rally in GB, Most of their money doesn't come from spectators stood in the forests...It must got to the event organisers...

Did you know that the Rally GB is the most detested event for the teams out of all the rounds??? Funny that...(oh and Germany!)
The mechanics, engineers etc all loath it because they compare it to the other rounds....The british based teams want something to be proud of!!

I get the feeling everyone would love the event to return to its roots, the safety stuff has to be updated for modern insurance rules, but I want Rally GB to be Rally Great Britain again...England, Scotland, Wales....and Ireland if logistically possible... Keilder, Dalby, North Wales, Mickey Mouse stages the lot!!!

Anyone with me??????
Anybody got other ideas for improvements??????

[Edited by MICAWRX - 11/10/2003 6:19:51 PM]

http://www.rogeralbertclarkrally.org.uk/

http://www.ukmotorsport.com/rogeralbertclarkrally/Logo%27s/sticker.JPG

I plan on competing in this event.

I have spectated on 6 WRC events this year with Ultimate Rally World (http://www.ultimaterallyworld.com/index2.html) and have had a fantastic time on each event. This is a new company which started taking clients to events in 2003 after researching each rally in detail during 2002, it is run by one of my close friends who has years of WRC and National rally experience.

If you are looking for profesional advice on any WRC round get in touch with Alister.

My favourite event from 2003 was the Acropolis (greece), closely followed by Cyprus, superb in every way.

[Edited by johnfelstead - 11/10/2003 8:08:38 PM]

I'm with you, annoys me so much, when I think of the brilliant stages their are outside Wales, it would be criminal not too.
Cheers
Colin

I for one will put my name forword for this.

Just to get some idea what would people rather self drive or hire car. And what event I would like;

Spain, Finland, Italy (now gravel rember :)) Cyprus.

I think that France will work out very expensive beacuse of flights ect....

I think most ppl with be with you but just accept its not gonna happen. If you really dont like the UK event any more dont moan about it, do like we others do and go abroad and watch.

Chip.

Just booked 5 flights to Cyprus on www.ba.com £65 each way plus tax

I'm in absolute agreement with you. We need a true rally GB again. However 63 special stages like in the mid eighties is unlikely. I must admit the parking this year was much better than recently I don't think we queued for more than five minuets all weekend, but I was in the boot on entry to every stage.
How about Newcastle as start, finish, HQ and parc ferme as there would be enough decent hotels and the new Quayside there would make a good location. This coupled with a Carlise sevice area to allow stages in both Keilder area and into Scotland for the stages around Dumfries. This would be perfect for the new rally formats and would bring the rally to a new audience. Plus I would love to see around 25-26 stages to allow for a couple of night stages each night and better value for money.

Lewis555 - FANTASTIC IDEA! But it will be 2010 before it might just happen!

I shall be going abroad to watch one of the events next year. would be able to compare it to ours then. Perhaps we dont realise how good ours actually is!

The Rally GB looses it trump card next year.
It's no longer the last round of the Championship.

This year being a close title decider, the ticket sales were good. But will you pay £150 each next year?

We went down in 2001 for the Burns win. But we got freebie tickets from Network Q.
Last year we got the same free tickets, but the title battle was over. Tickets went in the bin.

Unless you live close to South Wales, your better off spending the same money and going abroad.

PS. Cyprus is great for the rally with very little crowds.
A £15 gold pass gets you into every stage, service area, a programme and a Baseball Cap.
Saw the Start, 7 stages, 1 service, the finish cermony. Then the beach party.

David

This year being a close title decider, the ticket sales were good. But will you pay £150 each next year?

You could still do all 3 days for £75.00


Last year we got the same free tickets, but the title battle was over. Tickets went in the bin.

So when it's in Sept the title wont be decided therefore they'll still be battling it out for the championship.

Chip.

Good call Chip!!!

I'm going to Cyprus :cool: cos my parnets & brother live there, not cos I want to boycot GB.

I'll be doing GB too. OS maps will be out and "Spectator Pen" escape committee will be on the case don't you worry 'bout that!:D

Being an old git of 43, I still remember proper rallying in the English, Welsh and Scotish forests. Back in the days of the RAC Rally. 5 days of rallying day and night with little or no sleep for the drivers. Seperated the men from the boys until the Scandinavians decided they didn't like night rallying. Who remembers 'killer kielder' Those were the good old days! Bring em back I say and lets have a proper rally. After all, theres nothing like sitting in the forests at 2 am with a flask waiting for the howl of a twin cam, freezin me nuts off.

Do you want another 7 years of bad parking in Welsh only forests with sometimes facist rules on spectating??
...As opposed to bad parking in Kielder forest with some "facist" rules on spectating? Whether you like it or not, the designated spectator areas are now part and parcel of British rallying, while the car parking will be implemented as well (or as badly) as the event planning and staffing allows.

People will be complaining about these issues no matter where in the UK the event is held. The only difference is that (amazingly enough) it'd be less of a trip for you to go and watch. Still, if nothing else you can expect some support from Flat Earth in 5th.

Can we force the hand of the MSA to plan a decent national event?
You can't force the MSA to do anything they don't want to do. It's a business, not a democracy. Spectators have never had a say in the format of the Rally GB, so why do you think you can change things now? Try phoning them up and asking them to run the British GP at Croft...

I am sure they would have to do something if no one turned up....
And how likely do you think that is? All the teams registered for the WRC are mandated to do it, there are always a few privateers interested, and more than enough spectators who want to buy tickets.

Did you know that the Rally GB is the most detested event for the teams out of all the rounds??? Funny that...
And you know this because...? If there is a grain of truth in what you're saying, a large part of this would no doubt be that it's normally cold and soaking wet in the UK in November. Next year's date change will address that to some extent.

I get the feeling everyone would love the event to return to its roots,
You'd be wrong. An event in the "old" style would be a logistical nightmare, as well as astronomically expensive. Plus I'm sure there are plenty of people who like the idea of being able to watch over half the event's stages without having to dash headlong from one end of the UK to the other.

the safety stuff has to be updated for modern insurance rules,
You were complaining about "fascist" spectator arrangements earlier, yet now you're accepting them. Make your mind up! ;)

but I want Rally GB to be Rally Great Britain again...
As long as the Rally GB remains part of the World Championship, it will follow the WRC regs which currently mandate 400km of stages, maximum leg lengths, single service areas and so-on. The sooner you lot get that into your heads that the less time you'll waste hoping for changes to the event's format that are never going to happen.

England, Scotland, Wales....and Ireland if logistically possible...
How do you propose getting rallycars, service barges, service crews, fuel and tyre support over there and back, all in the course of a rally that would last four or five days, while keeping things remotely affordable for anyone bar Steve Perez?

Anyone with me??????
Your idea's nothing more than a nostalgic rallyfan's wet dream; great in theory but totally impractical from a logistical and cost point of view. If you want to have a pop at organising it, there's nothing stopping you having a go, although it might be better to lend your skills to the people behind the R.A. Clarke Rally though.

As far as the Rally GB is concerned, it's staying pretty much the way it is for the forseeable future, and whether we like it or not, nothing any of us can do or say will make the slightest bit of difference to the format.

Anybody got other ideas for improvements??????
As John has already mentioned, find out about the Roger Albert Clarke Rally. It seems to be a bit closer to what you're after, but it's still far from a traditional Rally Great Britain.

Mind you, with all that piddling about on the road for only 210 stage miles, you'd get better value (and much more time in bed) doing a WRC event...

[Edited by greasemonkey - 11/11/2003 3:23:44 AM]

Geoffrey Boycott on Rally GB - no, I think you find it was Tony Jardine!

Its deteriating into some person with too much time on their hands analysing every statement.

I think most people get the jist of what I was saying.

Think about this one....Spread out stages, less people crammed into one part of the country, less people walking the stages getting away from pens with a 1000 people in....its not rocket science.

A few people know what I do for a living, its in motorsport but I aren't going to justify to a saddo like grease monkey.

I don't mind a 600 mile round trip to wales, I have done it for 6 years, but I find stages like Rhondda boring, 26 miles with 3 quality spectator junctions, remember Sweetlamb.....Are you welsh by any chance???

IF the MSA gets no revenue from spectators, they will HAVE to do something.

How do you get to Ireland??? On a ferry...

I can see your not a real enthusiast Grease Monkey, talking about Following Rallying and going to Bed in the same post....

Here we go ....quote quote quote

[Edited by MICAWRX - 11/11/2003 8:23:33 AM]

I'm with you MICAWRX.

Sadly, the only thing that will have any effect on the organisation of this event is a complete boycott by true rally fans. If tickets don't sell, a re-think would be necessary but with the rally losing it's season finale status, I suspect it is in line for a "re-viewing" by the FIA anyway.

Alas, this boycott will never happen because too many people out there watching, don't remember the days (and nights) of real rallying. Indeed, from what I saw of many spectators this year, the majority don't even know the fundamentals of the sport.

I would put my name to any campaign to re-think the event but unfortunately there are far greater powers (and finances) involved nowadays.

We won't change the now glorified 12 car that the Rally GB has become, so let's put our time, money and focus into something worthwhile and turn our attention to Britain's proper rally for 2004, the RAClark.



[Edited by wizzer - 11/11/2003 9:12:31 AM]

Im certainly with MICAWRX.

Great Britain along with Monte Carlo has always been the spiritual 'home' of rallying from its early days as a touring reliability trial to today's format of special stages.

It's such a shame that the glorious days of the true Rally of Great Britain have come to an end. Yes I understand everything has to change and develop, but surely the current format is nothing more than a joke. Even the drivers often complain about driving on stages that are 'too rough' or in weather that is 'too dangerous'. Blimey! If the conditions are that bad then slow down and drive accordingly. It's not just about speed but it's about reliability and getting to the finish in the best possible time.

Rallying is a spectacular sport - don't get me wrong, but i can't help but think that the teams are getting a bit soft sometimes.

Jeepers! So what if the gravel crew can't go through every stage! The driver should drive to what he or she can see, along with the co-driver/navigator to help! If a driver crashes out then it's his or her fault for not driving appropriately to the conditions.

Grass roots driving is about competing on roads which you're not familiar with. And with today's rally format looking like it's going to run pretty much the same stages for the next 3 years then that element of the 'unknown' is removed.

Rally of GB is a shadow of its former self.

I'm going to watch the Le Jog reliability road rally in December, and possibly watch a few of these new endurance type event, and the Roger Albert Clarke Rally.

It seems that these events are much closer to what the Rally of GB should be.

Right Im going to shut up now.

Impster.

Spot on Impster

Its deteriating into some person with too much time on their hands analysing every statement.
This is a discussion forum. If you say something here, you have no right to bitch and moan in the event that someone chooses to think about what you say, and chooses to reply. If you can't engage in a discussion, why are you here?

Think about this one....Spread out stages, less people crammed into one part of the country, less people walking the stages getting away from pens with a 1000 people in....its not rocket science.
That's perfectly fair comment, and part of the reason why the WRC commission are on about moving away from single service areas. It was ISC in the first place who made the big push for centralised servicing, and their influence doesn't seem to be as strong as it was.

A few people know what I do for a living, its in motorsport
Great. Ditto.

but I aren't going to justify to a saddo like grease monkey.
So you can't think of a reasoned response, and instead choose to reduce yourself to juvenile insults full of equally juvenile grammar? What form of motorsport are you involved in exactly, junior karts?

IF the MSA gets no revenue from spectators, they will HAVE to do something.
Again, how likely do you think that is?

How do you get to Ireland??? On a ferry...
How do you get all the rallycars and service vehicles on a ferry in a short enough timescale, get them over the water, and then get them back, all at a level that would be affordable by amateur drivers?

I can see your not a real enthusiast Grease Monkey, You don't have a clue who I am, what I do, or indeed how long I've been involved in the sport. It would also be interesting to hear your definition of what a "real enthusiast" is (apart, of course, from someone who shares your views).

Here we go ....quote quote quote
Yep, and please make your next response something other than name-calling next time.



[Edited by greasemonkey - 11/11/2003 3:10:56 PM]

Whilst I appreciate the points made by greasemonkey, I'm afraid I come down firmly on the side of MicaWRX.
I grew up watching the RAC on TV, and longing to be able to sniff the fuel burning in the pre-dawn air in forests all over the UK.
Having marshalled WalesrallyGB this year, it's a poor imitation of what rallying should be about.
Whilst I understand the need for central servicing, it severly limits the available forests! which cannot be a good thing for variety.
From reading this forum, it seems that the majority of rally fans, whilst accepting that change is inevitable, and (in a few cases) necessary; believe that the organisers of WalesrallyGB are attempting to fix something that isn't broken.
I believe that it's time for all rallyfans in the UK to come together and push for some changes to the event for next year in order for our sport to survive. (Channel 4 are already saying that they may need to reduce!! coverage next year to two 10 minute shows and one 30 minute one (having seen the live coverage on Sunday though, this might not be such a bad thing!))
If C4 can't cover the events properly, then they should give rallying back to the BBC
Bring on the flames!!

Rallyfan1977, you have come up with 2 different points.

Firstly, I agree, C4's TV coverage was incredibly poor, considering the camera technology these days. The capability is there to show not only exciting shots from any angle but over-lays showing speed, revs etc etc. This, I believe, is out of their hands as (like Eurosport) their on-stage footage is from a single source. What is unbelievable is why they have presentsers with seemingly very little rallying knowledge - Jon Desborough??

Secondly, the rally could easily be made more exciting - longer runs on Epynt; heading further North to better stages; earlier starts and later finishes (therefore all crews get to run in the dark). Alas the regulations state that only 10% route changes are permitted annually and the "superstars" and their teams would not like the darkness idea - perish the thought!

Therefore, I believe we can argue all we like, but the MSA will have covered their ears. I hate to say it again, but let's all head for the Roger Clark Rally next year.

Yep I'm doing the RAC next year along with 10 others and probably more. Also will do Monte Carlo and probably Germany. Cataluna is also a cheap option, worked out the same there for 3 days than the Wales Rally.
Just sick of Wales now, to poorly organised, can't knock the marshalls though, everyone I met was nice and polite and gave you the time of day. Big thumbs up to them, down to the organisers

[Edited by stellaman23 - 11/11/2003 4:51:02 PM]

From reading this forum, it seems that the majority of rally fans, whilst accepting that change is inevitable, and (in a few cases) necessary; believe that the organisers of WalesrallyGB are attempting to fix something that isn't broken.
The organisers of the event are doing the only thing they can - organising an event within the framework of the FIA WRC regulations. These regulations would apply no matter where in the UK the event was held, so please don't blame IMS for matters about which they have no control. The only way they could deviate from this would be to withdraw the event from the WRC, which I'm sure none of the complainers would like to see...

(Channel 4 are already saying that they may need to reduce!! coverage next year to two 10 minute shows and one 30 minute one
Yes, Channel 4 seem to be causing their own problems. They punt the programming all the way around the schedule then complain that viewing figures aren't what they hoped they'd be. What is needed is a regular slot. Unfortunately, the head of programming at C4 is now an out and out entertainment/ratings freak, so expect more of the same.

(having seen the live coverage on Sunday though, this might not be such a bad thing!))
If C4 can't cover the events properly, then they should give rallying back to the BBC
I have to agree, in large part at least. All this hullaballoo about the live coverage this year makes it sound like it's difficult to do or something. I seem to recall the Beeb regularly covering the Sunday stages live, so it can't be that hard. Seems in this respect that they're only just back to where the BBC were about six years ago.

Dear oh dear, are we bitching again?
Obviously Greasemonkey likes making a point, and why not we do don't we. As for rallying fans, although I forgot the rally was running,(thought it was next week!).
I looked in the TV Times, and guess what ? No rally coverage! Is this a first ? Remember Top Gear Rally reports nightly ? Maybe i've got a different TV than everyone else ? Lets face it, rallying has changed from the 'good old days' because of costs etc.

Perhaps the Welsh Forestry Commision are much cheaper than others in England, that seem to charge hideous amounts even for club rallying. From memory this was £250 per stage mile for the organising club, and this was at least 10 years ago. Perhaps if we didn't have jobsworths in government, the Rally GB could be run partly on closed roads and partly in the forests.(and before you start there are extremely fast and challenging tarmac routes in all of the UK)

Remember the 'Tour of MUll' this was a closed road rally, no helmets required or roll bars, and about £40 to0 enter. Because of massive interest(remember closed road) it soon became, yes you guessed it a 'Stage Rally'. Wonder why ?

I have been to Corsica for the last 2 years making an 8 night holiday of it including spending a few days in Sardinia.

I didn't have to pay to watch stages
In 2 years not one stage has been cancelled
Very little traffic
I didn't have to get up at a stupid time to go to the stages
all stages 1 hour travel max from our lodgings
Fantastic food
Fantastic drink
Amazing views
It's not the UK!
I got my picture taken with 2 world champions!

Nice answers.

I will put some interesting lines in so you can copy them.

If the prices go up more on Wales Rally GB people will go to other countries as it is better value for money, and all you will be left with is some die hard spectators and some out for a family afternoon in Margam park, white jeans,brand new white trainers and the like, as that is what is getting more and more of, hey heres a though why don't we put up a fair ground there too so if you get bored with the rally you can do other things too.

P.S. world rally travel are expanding as they are getting booked out faster and faster thanks tyo the Prices on the welsh rally and NO I dont work for them!!!

It was a daft point, but you can get to Ireland in 1 hour on the seacat, long time isn't it.

Rally has to evolve, but it must evolve not die!!!!!!!!!


So you any better ideas or are you just going to put down everyone else grease monkey.

Enjoy the welsh rally, I will enjoy Sweden and Greece.


P.s. Go the tours I met Petter, Seb, Markko, and Panizzi. Had a drink with them all,(yes I do have the photo's to prove it) try world rally travel as they organised some of that too. Watch the rally over they and then make some comments on the Wales rally GB.

You lot are the biggest load of boring traditionalist unwilling to change or accept change. Time to grow up me thinks! PS How much of this is about it being in Wales and not England?

All I can say is, keep an eye on the spectator numbers for the Rodger Clarke rally, you may be suprised. It is likely more spectators will appear than the Rally GB, something to think about.

Unfortunately I think the RAC rally will go the same way as the Tour of Britain back in the late 80's. There is no way it will attract more speccies then the WRC round in Wales. No way.

Chip.