kalassynikoff

Can you send me some bump stops for the inverted struts if I pay for it?

2pot

iTrader: (3)

Which inverted struts are you going to use?

kalassynikoff

V5. Havent gotten them yet but I just wanted to find out in advance.

2pot

iTrader: (3)

I'll check on the postage costs.

awdftw

Do I need to use this white line kit:

http://www.whiteline.com.au/product_..._number=KCA313

I have the p11L with kyb excel g.

Yann

Amazing post !! even if hard to follow from the beginning for me...
2pot is a Phd for classic springs
with Scott.T active support as well...


what an achievement 2Pot !
And I know that it is not easy to work with Eibach...


And I totally agree with your "Mantra" / philosophy for set up or handling
I think you are almost the only one who takes care of bumpstop even though that is a level 1 topic/parameter in motorsport for performance, but also for street cars manufacturers.


@2pot
I think a set of P11L will suit me, but you will confirm
the spring rate is 34F/31.5R, isn't it ?
I have a Wagon MY98, with Ohlins japan DFV inverted struts (freshly serviced and revalved ).
My arbs are factory ones (19/20), I have got the hardest links and bushings to put on the car.
I never go on track, but like small roads in UK, here in south of France the mountain roads are quite bumpy.
I would like to have a positive rake, so I may need saggy butt spacer ?


Thanks for your feedback

2pot

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for your understanding as to just how difficult the whole process is.

The P11L rear spring rate is 27.5N/mm, same as the original P1 springs.

You will not need a saggy butt spacer.

£250 inc delivery to France.

I do have bump stop sets for inverted dampers.

When you had your Ohlins rebuilt, do you know what bump stops were installed?

2pot

iTrader: (3)

You don't need it. As your front ride height is no lower than the Prodrive wr97/98 front springs.
But, I'd use the Whiteline kit - it has a positive effect under hard cornering

Yann

Thanks for the quick reply
I think they didn't change the bump stops, so normally original ones (but old obviously)
For the rear I have a photo (I don't how to put a picture in the post? but that was a long progressive bumpstop in good condition), but nothing for the front...
Maybe it will be safer for me to take a new bumpstop set as well
And also because you defined a good set-up for handling with it
So I will have a good set-up right after assembly

kalassynikoff

I want to know for ride quality what is the best strut to fit with these springs. I feel that the AGX can be harsh with other people in the car. Almost as if it cant handle the drop.

2pot

iTrader: (3)

Undulating/uneven roads - 19mm front bar, 20mm rear bar.
agx's are warrantied up to an 1.5" drop, from stock - so no problem there.
With P11L's, on the road, setting 2 front, setting 4 rear (one person, so far, prefers setting 3 rear).
What wheel width and et are you running? What tyres?

kalassynikoff

Im running 17x7.5 bbs rims with sumitomo 235 50 r17 tires on them. Ive got 10 mm spacers and gd sti control arms and lat links so the car is wider too. Its perfectly acceptable when its just me in the car but it gets a little harsh with someone else.

kalassynikoff

I'm curious about tokico D-Specs too.

2pot

iTrader: (3)

Are your agx's gc or gd? How old?
How is the ride different from your previous excel-g's?

kalassynikoff

They are a little old. Maybe 2 years. I dont put tons of miles on my car but I drive aggressively and the roads in UTAH suck. Its hard to tell with the excel-g cause I had completely different springs.

The ride with the current springs is fine when its just me but I feel the struts are underdamped when I have another person in the car. It just makes the bumps harsh.

2pot

iTrader: (3)

Are you using a bar set-up larger than 19mm front 20mm rear?
If so, try this:
Set the dampers at 2 front and 4 rear (assuming they are gc struts? Or 2 front, 2 rear, if gd)
Disconnect one end link, where it attaches to the bar, both front and rear, and go for a drive - remember you're testing ride quality NOT cornering.
If you're still using a 19mm front bar, don't disconnect the front end link.

When you now adjust the dampers, with the bars disconnected, what setting gives you the best ride quality?

kalassynikoff

Ill give it a shot when i have the chance. Too snowy and cold for me to be crawling around under there but if it warms up a little I will go for it.

2pot

iTrader: (3)

A bigger bar reduces the independence of the suspension, effecting ride quality, braking and traction on uneven/undulating roads.

You want the smallest bars possible, on poorer road surfaces, to avoid 'roll-rock'.
Roll-rock:
If the spring rate is relatively low and the bar is too stiff, a suspension movement, initially, occurring on only one side of the vehicle, will be transmitted to the other side, inducing an unsettling 'roll-rock' motion.

The other problem is your low wheel et = increased kick-back felt through the steering, due to road imperfections. Do you have to run big bars, to keep the tyres from hitting the arches?

The koni inserts and tokico have more compression damping - on poor roads I think they'll make your problem worse.

Spent a lot of time photographing the Utah/Colorado border - I miss it.

kalassynikoff

I run a stock wrx bar in the front and a 20 mm bar in the back. I guess I could get an adjustable bar for the back but it is mainly the front that is rough. I even changed to stock style spherical endlinks to make the ride a bit more pleasant in the front. The wrx bar is the smallest bar I can run that will clear my headers. Only other option would be to get an adjustable for the front too.

Honestly I feel that the front suffers mostly because when another person is in the car it weighs down the front and i lose clearance on the strut. I do know that AGXs arent super friendly with drops so I wonder if I am pushing the line there. My front is heavy due to the added weight of my 6 speed as well.

It's not overly brutal its just that I would like it to be a little more compliant. I wish they still sold the tokicos for the gc8. I heard those are nicer riding than the AGXs. I found the part number but I haven't found a place that lists them in stock. Maybe I should call Tokico themselves next week. Honestly maybe its time to put new AGXs on the front at least. I just warranty them through amazon so its not a big deal.

2pot

iTrader: (3)

Are you using gd front cross member and bar?
There is a 19mm front turbo gd bar - 20401FE100
Plenty of people running six speed without this issue.
I suppose it could be weak dampers.
Alternatively, I could send you 10mm longer, but softer, more progressive, front bump stops to try?
They'll fit your front dust boots.
I'll put two packers in, which clip to the damper shaft. Use the packers ONLY IF you get tyre to arch contact, due to the off-set your running.
Clip them between the bump stop and the strut body.

kalassynikoff

That sounds like a plan. How much for the bumpstops and stuff?

nikon-man

iTrader: (3)

Would these fit a WRX hatch with standard shocks etc ???

2pot

iTrader: (3)

They're for classics

Yann

P11L Springs received today !

thanks 2pot

TurboMaup

Hello everyone,

Thanks for the amazing job on these springs. I heard of it thanks to Yann, the poster above.

I own a GC8 with OEM 19/20 bars. I was to put bigger sway bars, but understood that it's not the best idea to keep a decent handling on bumpy roads.

I am currently running AGX shocks with progressive eibach pro kit springs. They do fine on the road, and were okay for my occasionnal trackdays during 2 years. But now I am becoming faster on the track, and I feel how much my springs are inappropriate for track use. I believe my AGX's can do well with better springs, and can at least handle the P11L's along with the appropriate bumpstops you would suggest. That would for sure be a nice improvement, but how would this setup handle the track in your opinion ? The WR15R/T's are very interesting as well, but I don't know if the AGX's are good enough for them, and what would then be the ride quality on the road.

To sum it up : I would like to keep my AGX's, and don't know what springs to choose for a 50/50 road and track use. I'm leaning towards the WR15R/T's, but please tell me if I'm wrong.

Thanks!

2pot

iTrader: (3)

I think you are right.

Use the WR15R/T + bump stop and dust boot kit.
WR15R/T + AGX setting on the road - 3 front, 4,5 or 6 at the rear

You could use a 22mm adjustable rear bar. But, that would reduce rear suspension independence on uneven roads,

These are good for fine tuning your handling on track, with AGX. Clip them to the rear damper shaft between the bump stop and the strut body platform:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...A1KLDGQ0R80LXH

WR15R/T with 19/20 bars:

TurboMaup

Thanks 2pot for the quick and precise reply.

I am currently setting my AGX's to 2 front and 4 rear on the road, but I understand I would have to harden them to deal with the WR15R/T's. Thanks for the settings advice.
I also thought of the 22mm adjustable rear bar if I happen to feel too much understeer in the future, after getting used to the springs (let's do it step by step). I'm glad you approve this upgrade.

Very nice video, this setup looks promising! I could feel very few body roll when watching.

Thanks for the link to the clips. I'm not used to these things, but if I get it right, they are made to simulate a longer (and stiffer?) bump stop. I have no bodywork-to-wheel contact issues, but I assume you recommend them to reduce the rear roll at the limit.
Would you max out the AGX's stiffness settings on track, or keep the road setting?

Hopefully you still have a set of WR15R/T's in stock, with the appropriate bump stops and all for my AGX's? If yes, please PM me with the total price and payment/shipment procedure.

2pot

iTrader: (3)

Pm sent.
I'll Pm the postage to France later, when I have your address.

The clips make the rear bump stop engage sooner and stiffen their rate, for track, but still maintain side-to-side suspension independence. You can take them off for road use.

The benefit of the all-wheel drive is traction on corner exit - don't over stiffen the suspension.

TurboMaup

Thanks again 2pot, the springs are home!

Yann