Brand the Publicity Whore
22 December 2014, 03:27 PM
#181
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How about this;
The banks put themselves in a position where they needed bailing out.
How about they avoided that in the first place? Ripping off customers, wrongly investing savings, selling toxic loans, employing the "finest" minds to invent ways of dressing up enormous debts as SIVs and so on and so on.
Banking is very simple; investment banking is fundamentally simple. But mixing the two is a recipe for disaster AND incredibly deceitful.
The banks made vast, often fake profits, paid themselves fantasy money then when it all went wrong, WE paid for them.
No one went to prison, no one paid anything back.
Yes other industries use shady tactics and rip people off but nothing on this scale; there should be hundreds of bankers having all their earnings and assets stripped, behind bars - but they got away with it.
The entire industry tried to be too clever and it went wrong; WE picked up the tab. It's the biggest scandal of modern times.
However the supporters try to use micro economics to explain a macro economic situation; it's like returning a new car with a crap paint job only for some geeky car scientist to waffle on and patronise about the chemical composition of paint, somehow blaming you for the issue; I DON'T CARE JUST SORT IT OUT.
The banks put themselves in a position where they needed bailing out.
How about they avoided that in the first place? Ripping off customers, wrongly investing savings, selling toxic loans, employing the "finest" minds to invent ways of dressing up enormous debts as SIVs and so on and so on.
Banking is very simple; investment banking is fundamentally simple. But mixing the two is a recipe for disaster AND incredibly deceitful.
The banks made vast, often fake profits, paid themselves fantasy money then when it all went wrong, WE paid for them.
No one went to prison, no one paid anything back.
Yes other industries use shady tactics and rip people off but nothing on this scale; there should be hundreds of bankers having all their earnings and assets stripped, behind bars - but they got away with it.
The entire industry tried to be too clever and it went wrong; WE picked up the tab. It's the biggest scandal of modern times.
However the supporters try to use micro economics to explain a macro economic situation; it's like returning a new car with a crap paint job only for some geeky car scientist to waffle on and patronise about the chemical composition of paint, somehow blaming you for the issue; I DON'T CARE JUST SORT IT OUT.
22 December 2014, 03:50 PM
#182
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I have said earlier in this thread that it's not JUST the banks but they sure made a huge "contribution."
So where else does public money come from? Thin air?
You find my generalisations "hilarious" yet I find your average bankers "patronise," then insult tactics so hollow and obvious, it's even more "hilarious". I still think heads will roll but it's a long way off.
As for PR, I guarantee you read hundreds of PR generated media without any clue who wrote it. Good PR is completely invisible to anyone but an experienced practitioner. You'll have read it today without knowing. Guaranteed.
So where else does public money come from? Thin air?
You find my generalisations "hilarious" yet I find your average bankers "patronise," then insult tactics so hollow and obvious, it's even more "hilarious". I still think heads will roll but it's a long way off.
As for PR, I guarantee you read hundreds of PR generated media without any clue who wrote it. Good PR is completely invisible to anyone but an experienced practitioner. You'll have read it today without knowing. Guaranteed.
I'm not a banker. Nor are my tactics "patronise and insult".
I just say it like I see it.
22 December 2014, 04:16 PM
#183
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I must apologise for my irritation at the situation however it's shared by many others.
Unlike your total hatred of anyone sucessful (I do not consider certain criminal bankers to be successful), popular, fit, talented or generally anything. I like most people, unlike you.
Unlike your total hatred of anyone sucessful (I do not consider certain criminal bankers to be successful), popular, fit, talented or generally anything. I like most people, unlike you.
22 December 2014, 04:34 PM
#184
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I must apologise for my irritation at the situation however it's shared by many others.
Unlike your total hatred of anyone sucessful (I do not consider certain criminal bankers to be successful), popular, fit, talented or generally anything. I like most people, unlike you.
Unlike your total hatred of anyone sucessful (I do not consider certain criminal bankers to be successful), popular, fit, talented or generally anything. I like most people, unlike you.
Really?
22 December 2014, 04:36 PM
#185
I'd like to pose a question to DD and Jonc. Do you think banking needs regulating? The reason the public is miffed is because of the actions of some individuals in high profile banks. I'm sure you recall the case of Nick Leeson, he was charged and sentenced to prison.
The recent incidents of rogue bankers, the LIBOR fiasco and the selling of sub prime debt hidden amongst other portfolios. No one has been brought to task. This has fuelled public disaffection and perhaps if there had been a fall guy or two it may have quelled disillusionment.
Perhaps if procedures had been in place and adhered to the financial crisis could have been averted. It's all a lot of woulda, coulda, shoulda but maybe if the banking industry was more stringently regulated then there would be less malpractice.
The recent incidents of rogue bankers, the LIBOR fiasco and the selling of sub prime debt hidden amongst other portfolios. No one has been brought to task. This has fuelled public disaffection and perhaps if there had been a fall guy or two it may have quelled disillusionment.
Perhaps if procedures had been in place and adhered to the financial crisis could have been averted. It's all a lot of woulda, coulda, shoulda but maybe if the banking industry was more stringently regulated then there would be less malpractice.
22 December 2014, 05:00 PM
#186
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Thread Starter
I must apologise for my irritation at the situation however it's shared by many others.
Unlike your total hatred of anyone sucessful (I do not consider certain criminal bankers to be successful), popular, fit, talented or generally anything. I like most people, unlike you.
Unlike your total hatred of anyone sucessful (I do not consider certain criminal bankers to be successful), popular, fit, talented or generally anything. I like most people, unlike you.
I have, on this thread post only my views of celebrity that I generally dislike, only for then for it to be turned into a banker bashing thread. Fine, it is topical after all. I've put forward my views, answered questions put to me, sure they're not popular, but you put these questions to me and I answered them fairly in a reasoned and considered manner and try to have a debate. All I asked was the same in reply, several times I might add, but no, it gets turned in to another personal attack from all the usual suspects. I get 7 pages of diatribe, I know I say I get as good as give and give as good as I get, but it's not even funny anymore when it is constantly the same people attacking. And it is same people killing this forum. You know what, fvck this **** and fvck this place!
22 December 2014, 05:06 PM
#188
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A bit off topic but Mattee aren't you also part of the problem? Isn't it PR that convinces people to borrow money they can't afford, buy products they don't really need, help big business and govt generally manipulate the public? Facilitate big pharma to sell us drugs that don't really work, allow food companies to convince people certain things are the healthy option when really there are loads of hidden damaging chemicals in them?
The list goes on and up until a few years ago the tobacco PR machine kept encouraging children to take up smoking in this country (and this still happens in the third world) when everybody knew beyond doubt that they caused cancer and heart disease.
Personally I think that big banks DO have a lot to answer for, but then so does the PR industry, it does a lot more harm than it does good.
The list goes on and up until a few years ago the tobacco PR machine kept encouraging children to take up smoking in this country (and this still happens in the third world) when everybody knew beyond doubt that they caused cancer and heart disease.
Personally I think that big banks DO have a lot to answer for, but then so does the PR industry, it does a lot more harm than it does good.
22 December 2014, 05:13 PM
#189
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A bit off topic but Mattee aren't you also part of the problem? Isn't it PR that convinces people to borrow money they can't afford, buy products they don't really need, help big business and govt generally manipulate the public? Facilitate big pharma to sell us drugs that don't really work, allow food companies to convince people certain things are the healthy option when really there are loads of hidden damaging chemicals in them?
The list goes on and up until a few years ago the tobacco PR machine kept encouraging children to take up smoking in this country (and this still happens in the third world) when everybody knew beyond doubt that they caused cancer and heart disease.
Personally I think that big banks DO have a lot to answer for, but then so does the PR industry, it does a lot more harm than it does good.
The list goes on and up until a few years ago the tobacco PR machine kept encouraging children to take up smoking in this country (and this still happens in the third world) when everybody knew beyond doubt that they caused cancer and heart disease.
Personally I think that big banks DO have a lot to answer for, but then so does the PR industry, it does a lot more harm than it does good.
22 December 2014, 05:14 PM
#190
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I'd like to pose a question to DD and Jonc. Do you think banking needs regulating? The reason the public is miffed is because of the actions of some individuals in high profile banks. I'm sure you recall the case of Nick Leeson, he was charged and sentenced to prison.
The recent incidents of rogue bankers, the LIBOR fiasco and the selling of sub prime debt hidden amongst other portfolios. No one has been brought to task. This has fuelled public disaffection and perhaps if there had been a fall guy or two it may have quelled disillusionment.
Perhaps if procedures had been in place and adhered to the financial crisis could have been averted. It's all a lot of woulda, coulda, shoulda but maybe if the banking industry was more stringently regulated then there would be less malpractice.
The recent incidents of rogue bankers, the LIBOR fiasco and the selling of sub prime debt hidden amongst other portfolios. No one has been brought to task. This has fuelled public disaffection and perhaps if there had been a fall guy or two it may have quelled disillusionment.
Perhaps if procedures had been in place and adhered to the financial crisis could have been averted. It's all a lot of woulda, coulda, shoulda but maybe if the banking industry was more stringently regulated then there would be less malpractice.
Leeson was, arguably, a scapegoat. Barings had layers and layers of failures. When Leeson was making fortunes for Barings Bank he was a hero.
Do we really want scapegoats? Often its not one person's failings that are to blame. The media loves a witchunt but often what is reported is grossly innacurate. This is not the dark ages.
But having said that there are clearly certain cases where there is a more obvoius path to blame.
Not all banks suffered from the same failings. Northern Rock was caught in the American sub prime market. RBS paid far too much money for ABN Amro. Its very difficult to regulate, or legislate for all and sundry.
Its not all callous investment bankers praying on innocent people. Far from it.
22 December 2014, 08:00 PM
#192
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If you're starting up a new business, you could pay a small PR company to do a days work on it; if they're any good, you'll get coverage in all the local media, maybe even the trade press if it's a good story.
Or you could spend many times the amount on a single ad in one paper/magazine...
It's not all bad.
We've done a fair bit of non paid work for charities too.
22 December 2014, 08:45 PM
#193
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22 December 2014, 08:56 PM
#194
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Our clients, some very large, keep us on, we've more than doubled our retained client base (retained work is incredibly hard to get these days), we get new business calls and stacks of CVs sent constantly. There are plenty of ponsy, old school firms around but they won't survive.
The celeb PR ****e is a different matter.
22 December 2014, 10:00 PM
#195
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[QUOTE=Matteeboy;11588508]Yes; it helps businesses thrive. It can catapult a business to success. It can help boost sales to established firms. It can help manage a crisis. But it's so broad, it's like asking if accountants are worthwhile.
Our clients, some very large, keep us on, we've more than doubled our retained client base (retained work is incredibly hard to get these days), we get new business calls and stacks of CVs sent constantly. There are plenty of ponsy, old school firms around but they won't survive.
Whether you've doubled your client base and have stacks of CVs sent to you is all well and good for your pocket, many banks could say the same thing.
The question is whether overall your industry has a truly positive impact on the world, my personal opinion is that it does more harm than good.
In many ways your industry is even worse than the banking sector. You make nothing, you design nothing, you create nothing, you discover nothing and you build nothing.
You often go on about how unproductive the UK economy is and how we no longer make anything anymore. I'm sorry to say but your own industry is a prime example of this.
Our clients, some very large, keep us on, we've more than doubled our retained client base (retained work is incredibly hard to get these days), we get new business calls and stacks of CVs sent constantly. There are plenty of ponsy, old school firms around but they won't survive.
Whether you've doubled your client base and have stacks of CVs sent to you is all well and good for your pocket, many banks could say the same thing.
The question is whether overall your industry has a truly positive impact on the world, my personal opinion is that it does more harm than good.
In many ways your industry is even worse than the banking sector. You make nothing, you design nothing, you create nothing, you discover nothing and you build nothing.
You often go on about how unproductive the UK economy is and how we no longer make anything anymore. I'm sorry to say but your own industry is a prime example of this.
22 December 2014, 10:05 PM
#196
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Utter bollox that shows how naive you are in business.
Is this just a lame dig because I think your profession is drastically overpaid?
While you're at it, ban advertising, ban all forms of marketing, ban any form of sales, ban it all.
Sorry Ding but you've scored an own goal this time. And shown that, stripped of your rather cosy career, you'd last ten minutes in the real world.
Is this just a lame dig because I think your profession is drastically overpaid?
While you're at it, ban advertising, ban all forms of marketing, ban any form of sales, ban it all.
Sorry Ding but you've scored an own goal this time. And shown that, stripped of your rather cosy career, you'd last ten minutes in the real world.
Last edited by Matteeboy; 22 December 2014 at 10:06 PM.
22 December 2014, 10:32 PM
#197
Utter bollox that shows how naive you are in business.
Is this just a lame dig because I think your profession is drastically overpaid?
While you're at it, ban advertising, ban all forms of marketing, ban any form of sales, ban it all.
Sorry Ding but you've scored an own goal this time. And shown that, stripped of your rather cosy career, you'd last ten minutes in the real world.
Is this just a lame dig because I think your profession is drastically overpaid?
While you're at it, ban advertising, ban all forms of marketing, ban any form of sales, ban it all.
Sorry Ding but you've scored an own goal this time. And shown that, stripped of your rather cosy career, you'd last ten minutes in the real world.
22 December 2014, 10:37 PM
#198
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22 December 2014, 11:09 PM
#199
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Thank you, yes DD gets a tax bill, which is where I came in on this thread
This thread started with you posting about Russell Brand's accusation the your kind are self important arrogant w4nkers
He may have a point
This thread started with you posting about Russell Brand's accusation the your kind are self important arrogant w4nkers
He may have a point
23 December 2014, 06:17 AM
#200
Scooby Regular
Utter bollox that shows how naive you are in business.
Is this just a lame dig because I think your profession is drastically overpaid?
While you're at it, ban advertising, ban all forms of marketing, ban any form of sales, ban it all.
Sorry Ding but you've scored an own goal this time. And shown that, stripped of your rather cosy career, you'd last ten minutes in the real world.
Is this just a lame dig because I think your profession is drastically overpaid?
While you're at it, ban advertising, ban all forms of marketing, ban any form of sales, ban it all.
Sorry Ding but you've scored an own goal this time. And shown that, stripped of your rather cosy career, you'd last ten minutes in the real world.
I'm not trying to have a lame dig and never said anything about banning anything. I don't understand why you are reacting in this way and getting personal when I'm just trying to discuss your industry in general.
All I'm asking is whether you feel that on the whole PR has a positive role to play in society and for people.
I'm not talking about you personally, but my own opinion is that a large part of PR is trying to convince people to do things that aren't actually in their best interests.
Last edited by Dingdongler; 23 December 2014 at 06:21 AM.
23 December 2014, 08:45 AM
#201
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Although I'm not surprised you don't understand the difference between having an obligation to account for, or to pay, and to actually "get" a bill, because your use of the english language and grammar is f*cking attrocious
23 December 2014, 08:48 AM
#202
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For the last time Hodgy, HMRC does not send me a tax bill, electornically, on line, or otherwise.
Although I'm not surprised you don't understand the difference between having an obligation to account for, or to pay, and to actually "get" a bill, because your use of the english language and grammar is f*cking attrocious
Although I'm not surprised you don't understand the difference between having an obligation to account for, or to pay, and to actually "get" a bill, because your use of the english language and grammar is f*cking attrocious
23 December 2014, 09:06 AM
#203
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Utter bollox that shows how naive you are in business.
Is this just a lame dig because I think your profession is drastically overpaid?
While you're at it, ban advertising, ban all forms of marketing, ban any form of sales, ban it all.
Sorry Ding but you've scored an own goal this time. And shown that, stripped of your rather cosy career, you'd last ten minutes in the real world.
Is this just a lame dig because I think your profession is drastically overpaid?
While you're at it, ban advertising, ban all forms of marketing, ban any form of sales, ban it all.
Sorry Ding but you've scored an own goal this time. And shown that, stripped of your rather cosy career, you'd last ten minutes in the real world.
Ding asked what the PR industry does for humanity. You then went on to describe what the PR industry does for the economy.
Big difference
Ding doesn't have to be smart in business. He has talents elsewhere that are way more valuable than yours, or mine for that matter.
You then went on to big up your own success. Nothing to do with his question. At all. Just an ego massage for you.
But he's right. PR has a place, but in the sales environment it doesn't do anything more than help generate wealth.
And given one of your biggest former (and current, albeit in a more restructed form) clients was part of an empire, parts of which were involved in criminal activity, for you to have a pop at bankers is, really, a bit rich.
How does it feel to know that some of your income came from that source?
Personally it doesn't bother me one bit, by the way, after all, work is work. But please stop for one moment and see the irony.
It is, however, good to see that you do a wide variety of PR work for a wide client base, accross different fields, not all of them commercial.
23 December 2014, 09:10 AM
#204
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a post about Brand accusing them of being self important arrogant *******
anyway it give DD an excuse to post about his amazing credentials and experience in the matter - something he does on every thread
and when posters resort to attacks on spelling & grammar, pretty much everyone knows the score
23 December 2014, 09:50 AM
#205
lol, like I said
a post about Brand accusing them of being self important arrogant *******
anyway it give DD an excuse to post about his amazing credentials and experience in the matter - something he does on every thread
and when posters resort to attacks on spelling & grammar, pretty much everyone knows the score
a post about Brand accusing them of being self important arrogant *******
anyway it give DD an excuse to post about his amazing credentials and experience in the matter - something he does on every thread
and when posters resort to attacks on spelling & grammar, pretty much everyone knows the score
23 December 2014, 11:22 AM
#206
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23 December 2014, 11:57 AM
#207
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lol, like I said
a post about Brand accusing them of being self important arrogant *******
anyway it give DD an excuse to post about his amazing credentials and experience in the matter - something he does on every thread
and when posters resort to attacks on spelling & grammar, pretty much everyone knows the score
a post about Brand accusing them of being self important arrogant *******
anyway it give DD an excuse to post about his amazing credentials and experience in the matter - something he does on every thread
and when posters resort to attacks on spelling & grammar, pretty much everyone knows the score
Sorry if my 20 plus years experience in the field is in some way less relevant than your media/pub knowledge
And given your inability to understand the basic concept of "getting something" I'd say the comments on your spelling and grammar are quite relevant.
But I'm not so insecure as to give a rats *** what score people know or not
Last edited by Devildog; 23 December 2014 at 12:02 PM.
23 December 2014, 12:01 PM
#208
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But then I wouldn't expect you or the "pub ranter" to see that
23 December 2014, 05:19 PM
#209
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Agree with TdF on this one - in your desperate quest for the upper hand, you seize on the tiniest point, make a huge fuss about it then claim yourself the "winner." It's quite amusing actually. Oh and the thinly veiled stalker threats don't wash any more now I've worked out exactly who you are. I would never consider using it against you like you do with me but needless to say your careful identity hiding slipped up a few times.
I like debating with you DD, I agree with some points you make but when you get on a serious high horse then get a bit threatening, my respect for you hits the floor.
But I'm not so insecure as to give a rats *** what score people know or not
The most hypocritical statement is ages - you absolutely DO care above almost anything else. And sometimes it utterly ruins your credibility.
Back to Brand - overall, I think he is a force for good.
I like debating with you DD, I agree with some points you make but when you get on a serious high horse then get a bit threatening, my respect for you hits the floor.
But I'm not so insecure as to give a rats *** what score people know or not
The most hypocritical statement is ages - you absolutely DO care above almost anything else. And sometimes it utterly ruins your credibility.
Back to Brand - overall, I think he is a force for good.
23 December 2014, 07:10 PM
#210
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Mattee, you never really answered my question. Russell Brand maybe as you put it, overall a force for good, but does the same apply to the PR industry?
Overall and globally, would you say the PR industry is a force for good?
Overall and globally, would you say the PR industry is a force for good?